Are Jews becoming even more like the Nazis?

I view anything which castigates a person (ie a Jew) as being a Nazi, based solely on his being a member of that race as being objectively racist. That's what your OP did. It's a piece of (*)(*)(*)(*).

I can't believe from our long association on this board that you are being so pig headed because when challenged, instead of clarifying that you had expressed yourself in a woefully inappropriate way, you continue with this evil drivel.

And, make no mistake, evil is the best word to characterize your apparent conversion to Holocaust denial. If you think that what Israelis are doing today is remotely comparable to the Holocaust in essence or degree, then you have indeed crossed that line into Holocaust denial. If on the other hand you are looking for casual similarities between States at war in order to throw hurtful insults then you may be guilty of the lesser charge of reckless intellectual hooliganism.

As you choose to persist without clarification, expressing yourself in the same hamfisted way, then I can only conclude that you are with David Irving in your assessment of what actually happened in the middle of the twentieth century in Germany, Poland and other places.

Your accusation "if...you would..." about me and the way I argue is pathetic. It's lazy and without any foundation. If I compare anyone with Nazis I do so very carefully. To do otherwise is to defecate on the graves of those who were real victims of the Nazis. As you have done.

You don't meet any of the points I make but you just windily dismiss them. I had at least though that you had some interest in debate but it seems that you are only interested in uttering anti-semitic abuse against "joos". Your posts make the reader feel dirty. They are nasty, prejudiced, bigoted little rolls of faeces. They speak to barbarism and darkness. They cross a line.

You have joined a long tradition of grotesque perversion with this filth: Mosely's blackshirts marching through the East End, Petain's collaborators in France, and of course Hitlers stormtroopers. They have their successors today, all belittling the Holocaust by saying "it was just like all countries who had wars with their neighbours and committed a few excesses". You join that thuggish cabal with your posted lies. You join and are complcit in the race attacks and the barbarity perpetrated by today's Nazis who minimize and talk down the Holocaust as you do. These posts of yours are not only lies, but they are music to the ears of the successors of Hitler, Goebbels and Heydrich. They are an act of collaboration with the BNP, the Front National and all the other brave new Nazis who tell us "Hitler wasn't so bad, OK he went a bit too far sometimes, but that's life...he's the same as modern day Israel, we've learned our lesson".

My point is very clear - when you make a blanket comparison of a RACE with NAZIs then you should at the very least explain why this comparson is more than just "not giving then a free pass". When do I give the IDF a free pass? I have a record of attacking the Israeli state for its excesses. I suppose you find it easy to imagine a simplistic world of extremist Israeli nationalists, Mein Kampf tucked under their arms, ranked against the angels on your side.

Your "either you agree that Jews are Nazis or you are giving them a free pass" is utterly disgusting. As is your whole position on this one. I have regularly fought right wing turds who argue that the Left is a source of anti-semitism. I am losing that argument everytime I read a piece of filth like the posts on the subject that you post.

No paseran.

 

You obviously have an emotional investment in anything that decries what are clear Israeli crimes against humanity that makes any rational discussion impossible.

Either that or you are just being mischievious.

 

It's not a sexual fantasy. It's lebensraum. It means "living space".

Given that why not compare the Israelis with modern day China, creating lebensraum for the Han race in Xinjiang. Or with the British Empire, which created lebensraum for whites in America, Australia and New Zealand, with plenty of blood spilled in the process, or a hundred other expansionist states. These comparisons are much closer. Your comparison by its very nature, implies the same scale and essence as the whole Nazi terror. It is an anti-semitic analysis and the more you try and defend this disgusting position, the more I am convinced of the true essence of what you have posted.

The policy of Nazi lebensraum involved the murder of millions of slavs and Jews amd Rroma: over ten million people. That involved - HOW MANY FECKING TIMES DO I HAVE TO REPEAT IT? - gas vans, gas chambers, men women and children being shot as they jumped into open graves, hundreds of villages being wiped out with their populations being herded up and burned to death in churches, the deportation of millions from cities to their deaths, a policy of working people to death, the complete removal of the judicial process from a whole race just on racial grounds alone... get an education!

The comparison is lazy, juvenile and ignorant AT BEST. It is a de facto act of collaboration with modern day Nazism as an act of Holocaust denial belittling the scale and horror of the Holocaust. It was an explicitly racist attack on my Jewish friends and my Jewish family (note Iolo's post - he saw that), ascribing hateful motives and actions to Jews as a whole. It is probably the most disgusting thing I have read on here in months, given that it comes from someone who styles themsleves as a tolerant liberal. Well, the truth is out. And will not be forgotten.

 

Only because you want it to.

If it is any consolation to you, I concede the Israelis are not using gas chambers.

But they are confiscating land, putting wire around it, and shooting Palestinians who try to trangress on what was once theirs.

 

That's a lie. I have not posted one word here to defend Israel. I have attacked a piece of racist filth posted by you and repeated and defended over and over again. I have not said one thing to justify the disgraceful policy of Israel towards the West bank and Jewish settlements. I have however attacked a tissue of anti-semitic garbage that equates Jews with Nazis, posted by you in the title of this thread.

Attacking Israel is not anti-semitic. Pointing out that some extreme Israeli nationalists are neo nazis, is not anti-semitic. Even pointing out that some acts by a democracy in foresaking the rule of law in favour of colelctive punishment, as carried out by Israel, has parallels with the lack of respect for the law by totalitarian countries like Nazi Germany, is not anti semitic.

As for crimes against humanity, perhaps you would be prepared to define the crimes against humanity of the Israeli state, including a rigorous definition of what a crime against humanity is (if rigour is something you do, that is). I think Israel can be accused of one major crime against humanity and that is the enablement of the Christian militia in Lebanon to massacre refugees in Sabra and Shatila. In my opinion Sharon should be brought to justice for this act which he is personally guilty of. But this is not remotely on the same scale as the crimes of Nazi Germany.

Your posts are anti-semitic poisonous abuse of Jews. Your attempt to dismiss me as someone who never criticizes Israel and wants to give it a free pass is just a whopping great lie.

You have posted unambiguous anti-semitic filth. That's my problem. You don't even withdraw your characterizing of Jews (grammatically sonny that means ALL JEWS) as Nazis. It's so vile it makes me very angry.

Maybe I am just educated and understand what the Holocaust means. Your only defence here is that you don't. It's the only defence you have against an accusation of fascist collaboration. It's getting thinner and thinner, the more and more I put these arguments to you and you refuse to deal with them with your scornful dismissals of the challenges I make to you.

 

Deal with the whole argument. This pathetic soundbyte responding by you just underlines the weakness of your position. I have laid the argument out over and over again.

A comparison which is so weak in scale is inappropriate. Hundreds of countries have done what you say. Why do you want to associate Jews (yes, you defined this as a race problem and haven't retracted that) doing this with the one country who did this and a hundredfold worse things besides?

Your whole country is based on stealing land (lebensraum) by forced agreements with indigenous peoples. I would say that Israelis are acting like New Zealanders and I would have a sounder comparison. Maybe they can steal an arab dance and insert it into their national sport as a cultural sop to make up for stealing the arabs land, like your countrymen did eh with the Maoris?

The motivation behind the choice of your comparison becomes clearer with every reply.

 

Ask a Palestinian whether they think it is a "soundbite". Draw on comparisons, if you must, with countries that are civilised and not from the 19th century.

The Israelis are supposed to be civilised and living in a modern age. You deplore me for criticising them. You dismiss what they are doing as a frivolity. And you rage pointlessly against something I have not claimed.

But I reiterate. The Israelis are behaving like the Nazis of the 30s and 40s. Less extreme but different only in degree.

And give the Holocaust a rest. I deplore it as much as you do. But it has nothing to do with with this. Nor can it exonerate the Jews in Israel from their conduct towards the Palestinians today.

 

Israel is in offensive war.

 

FACT: Israel has not invaded anyone, as one cannot "invade" a non-existant place/nation.

FACT: The pro-jihadist liberals are far more closely related politically through their policies, to the policies of the NAZI party, than the Israeli government ever has been.

 

Less extreme but different only in degree". You mean like the New Zealanders? Taking people's land and then trying to force inequitable peace treaties on them? Are New Zealanders also not less extreme but different only in degree? Aren't New Zealanders and their British forefathers not murdering land stealing scum as well? Where did your lebensraum come from? Isn't it less extreme but different only in degree. In fact, isn't what Israel is doing, hampered by Israeli courts, a large liberal section of their population and international institutions, not also less extreme and different in degree from the crimes committed against Polynesian peoples by your forebears? I would say so. Jews are becoming like New Zealanders, might be better. If I was wont to express myself in a racist way that is, which I am not.

Stop dodging this argument. You chose to smear all Jews as Nazis quite deliberately.

I've got your number. You didn't express yourself badly, as I had first thought. The title of the tread says it all. Its simple, explicit, uncomplicated racism. Jews are becoming Nazis. You said it exactly as you meant it. Jews are becoming Nazis. Sickening, poisonous bile.

Vile...vile....vile... even the Holocaust denial is there. You want to talk about Nazis and ignore the Holocaust. You really think that is appropriate? Is the Holocaust merely a detail - and an inconvenient one for you - that you don't want to discuss? What's the matter, will your comparison of Israel and Nazi Germany breakdown or will you reveal the full panopoly of Holocaust denial you have at your disposal? What are you afraid of?

The most despicable filth you can imagine.

 

Don't you ever get bored with this juvenile drivel that you repeat over and over again?

"the pro-jihadist liberals". Liberals are the bitterest enemies of hand lopping, capital punishment obsessed bigots who want to kill gyas and deface women. Jihadists are extreme conservatives and resemble the New American Right in almost every way imaginable.

 

Point 1: the British entered New Zealand as equal partners with the Maori under the Treaty of Waitangi, which guaranteed joint sovereignty.

Point 2: The Land Wars resulted in massive and unjust land confiscations by one partner.

Point 3: The NZ government has been making reparations to Maori (of land, forestry and fishing rights, and cash) for those injustices since the 1970s.

Point 4: The Maori Wars were in the 19th century, not in 2011.

Point 5: We have not confiscated Maori land since 1870.

Your ranting does you no credit. I have explained my position. Which is pure disgust at what the Jews in Israel are doing to Palestinians. Which has nothing to do with the Holocaust. Which has nothing to do with the Jewish religion or being Jewish. And which is happening in the here and now, not 150 years ago.

 

Yes a lot of parallels between Britain and Israel there. Maybe Australia is en even closer comparison. But it's difficult to attack Joos with those isn't it?

The racist filth you have posted is here for all to see. Your sidestepping of my arguments is here for all to see. Your opening post which suggests all Jews are becoming Nazis is here for all to see. The fact that you choose to define what a nation is doing (Israel) by the race or religion of its people (Joos) when you condemn it, is here for all to see. The selection of the term Jewish was chosen to be inflammatory when set against the term "Nazi". This racist act is here for all to see. You continue to do this, attacking "Jews in Israel". It's a neo Nazi act to do that, pure and simple. You misrepresent me as someone who doesn't criticize Israel. This is a lie which is here for all to see. And at the end of the day you try and ignore the Holocaust as marginal to your accusation of Nazism, which is a despicable act of Holocaust denial that is here for all to see.

Every time you post this anti-semitic filth I hope to be around to expose the hateful and racist bile exactly as I try to do when Stormfront Nazis come here to play.

No paseran.

 

You seem to forget that not all Israelis are Jews. And I am sure the Arab Israelis are no more delighted with what the Jewish Israelis are doing than the Palestinians are. One needs to distinguish the two.

Instead of abusing me and pleading past injustices against the Jews, why don't you offer up a justification for what the Jewish Israelis are doing?

 

I don't offer a justification because I don't agree with it. And you know that. And I have said that here. Your question is dishonest as it implies again that I support the excesses of the Israeli state.

But this doesn't justify in any way the unreconstructed racist filth that you continue to post. You blame "Jews". That implies that the actions of Israel are somehow caused by the Jewishness of it's population. That is disgusting and every time you post such neo Nazi filth you need to be challenged on it.

 

Stop the nonsense. What am I supposed to call them? Jewish Israelis is what they call themselves; as distinct from Arab Israelis.

And, no. I did not know you disagreed with their policies. Just like I do. Believe it or not, I don't read everything you write.

 

I read an awful lot of what you write. As we agree on many things and I have posted on the same side as you in many debates, I thought you may have got a sense of where I stand on things. But your churlish response I suppose is no surprise. No loss.

You want me to gloss over the anti-semitism you posted and talk about Israel. Unfortunately I believe that it is wrong to make common cause with anti-semitism twoards any end. The priority in this discussion is to face down racism. Only then can a discussion of Israeli actions begin.

You just assumed that because I objected to your racist anti-semitism that I supported Israel. That fits. Tribal approach to posting.

I'm different. I do not think that criticizing Israel is anti-semitic. Most criticism of Israel is not anti-semitic.

I think what you posted criticizing Jews is anti-semitic.

And I think equating Israel with Nazi Germany is so grotesquely disproprotionate that it may well be anti-semitic in motivation.

My beliefs have been vindicated completely by this thread.

And you're wriggling now. Now its "Jewish Israelis" that you claim to be talking about. You started off with just Jews. It's in the title of your thread. Unfortunately you can't change it (although you can apologize for it). It is of course sufficiently incendiary, being outright racist, to get people to post, which is about the kindest interpretation I can put on why you might have posted it if you didn't intend to be utterly offensive to Jewish people.

Your argument now is a bit like this one:

"Are Blacks becoming even more like the Nazis?"

Oooh you didn't mean blacks?

You meant the gangs of thugs paid by Robert Mugabe to harass and murder his opponents. They of course being black.

Try another approach like:

"Yes I made a mistake, I should have said Israelis, and not defined a group, that I was comparing to some of the worst human beings in history, by their race".

That's a minimum. Then you need to explain why you are equating the actions of the Israeli state with the obscenities of Nazi Germany. Something which you now feebly say is the same in nature but not in degree, which is like saying "it is a crap comparison".

Unfortunately even that doesn't wash because what you actually posted was not some limited comparison but "becoming even more like the Nazis" which very strongly implies a direct equivalence, not a difference of degree. So withdraw that lie that "Jews are even more like Nazis". Then apologize for its offensiveness.

Especially, which is not central to my argument, as Jews were actually the victims of the Nazis, which makes your filth particularly offensive hatespeech.

Your "I wasn't referring to arab Israelis" is pathetic. I presume you weren't referring to Israeli communists or Israeli peace campaigners either but unfortunately they get caught in with the joos you are trying to demonize by equating them with Nazis.

You've got nowhere to hide. The more you dig, the more you are exposed. Keep digging. It's edifying to see anti-semitism exposed so clearly.

 

You seem to have a deep need to prove anti-Semiticism where none exists. I assume that is because you spend so much time confronting the Stormfront (I do remember you saying that).

Clearly, when I referred to Jews in Israel, I was not talking about Jews in America or anywhere else for that matter. Equally clearly, I was not referring to Arab Israelis. Where I may have made a finer distinction would have been to distinguish between Jews who (like their government) support illegal confiscations and settlements and those (like you) who don't. I don't know how many would fall into the latter category but I note that successive Israeli governments (left as well as right wing) have been promoting and implementing these policies since 1967.

http://www.ifamericaknew.org/stats/settlements.html

And you seem to have an equally deep-seated need to distort any argument to suit whatever you agenda is:

"More like", again quite clearly, denotes a difference - in this case of degree, but only degree, in oppressive policies.

But I suspect you will continue to see what it suits you to see.

 

Just curious, seeing how the arabs/muslims are semites as well, would you call someone an anti semite if he were a joo who despised arabs and or muslims alike?

 

A drivelly piece of flamebait that makes no sense. The term anti Semitic no longer refers to Arabs. Muslims are completely different from Arabs (ever heard of Indonesia, or Turkey, or Afghanistan, or Bosnia...?). The term anti semitic is used to describe hatred of Jews, which is a racial term in this context, particularly when used to slur Israelis of Jewish background and descent.

Now do you need me to indulge your petty adolescent playground arseholiness any further?

 

And you will omit - you think I'm stupid to fall for such deceit? - the little word "even" which clearly demonstrates the filthy racism of your post.

Now your wriggling to claim it was this Jew or that Jew and that the Jewishness wasn't the main thing. But all we need to do is read what you wrote in the title of the OP to see the filthy bigotry that underlines your whole position.

 

I fear that Heroclitus may be a plant, invented to prevent discussion of these issues by producing vast, unreadable masses of words. Or do other people have longer attention spans?

 

Tell me why you are defending clear anti semitism. Why are you tolerating the race hate posted on here?

 

The largest group of Semites are Arabs and East Africans.

 

Soo, your not anti-semitic, just a jew basher as with alot of folks on this website, eh?