Are Jews becoming even more like the Nazis?

But you have still not told me:

1. Why Jews need to create bait they then need to take;

and

2. Why they are oppressing the Palestinians, confiscating their lands, and killing them.

Note: for the purposes of this discussion, "Jews" are Israeli Jews who think (2) is OK and have the blessing of their government to think thus .

 

Reads like a section of Mein Kampf.

Yes and the Jewbaiters have teased out those who post their neo Nazi racial cultural theories from the other side as well. Two sides of the same coin. Trotsky's prescription applies equally here.

 

I am not going to debate with Jewbaiters. Job number one is to expose their hatespeech and racsim. I will talk about the Palestinian question with civilized people who do not condemn "the Jews" as you now openly do just above here. I did actually do this earlier in the thread (I don't expect you to be honest about what I write) but that was before I had realized the extent of your Jew hatred.

Holocaust deniers (remember - you wanted to compare "the Jews" to Nazis and wanted to leave out the Holocaust!) and jewbaiters (seems now you are admitting it) don't have any place at the table of civilized debate. Just as I wouldn't argue with Oswald Mosely, I won't have polite parley with you either. I told you, Trotsky's prescription was right for fascists and racists. there is no reasoning with bigotry. Jewbaiters* are not part of the solution. There is nothing to be said to them. They just need to be exposed. On this thread I have done a good job in exposing your clear hatred of Jews.

*or the racists who condemn arab culture - an awesomely philistine act given the massive contribution to Western culture by arabs. But then anti-arab bigots are ignorant of history aren't they?

And your "for the purposes of discussion" is a deeply dishonest vile representation of Jews, thinly veiled. If you mean ""Jews" means "not actually Jews at all but something completely different"", then don't use the term "Jews". It's objectively clear, just by your assertion that Jews deserve to be baited, that your stance is identical to that of modern neo Nazis today.

 

I see. The issues about Jewish oppression are beyond debate if you perceive a slight about the Jewish people.

Isn't that contrived to be terribly convenient?

 

Nothing is beyond debate with civilized people. With Jew baiters and Holocaust deniers there can be no debate, because their views are based on bigotry and irrationality.

There's nothing convenient about it. I have, and will again, debated with people about the actions of Israel and West Bank settlers. I just won't be doing that with jew baiters and Holocaust deniers.

It's not complicated. Now that you have come out in the open as a Jew baiter, get your head around it.

 

How is noting that the Jews in Israel are mimicing the behaviours of the German Nazis in their occupied territories "bigoted and irrational"?

 

Because they are not mimicking them. You dig yourself deeper. Mimicry isn't to point out a similar minor characteristics: it is to pass yourself off as someone. You are clearly saying that Jews and Nazis are equivalent and, although earlier you pretended some semi-coherent nonsense about degrees of Nazism, trying to plea that you were being selective about the Nazism that the Jews were embracing, in latter posts you have just gone in for the out and out equivalence position. As here.

Israel is not mimicking Nazi Germany. Unless you are a Holocaust denier.

Unless, as Holocaust deniers want to do, and you have said you want to do, you ignore the gas chambers, the Einsatzgruppen, the whole villages rounded up and burned in the churches, the pits full of hundreds of bodies as Jewish people jump into them being shot by Nazi guards, the killings in the woods, the experiments on children, the extermination of the old and other races based on racial ideology, the wearing of a racial badge, the gas vans, the crematoria, the trains, the careful documentation of racial characteristics of the population...

This is the essence of Nazism which you want to ignore.

There is simply no meaningful comparison that has any more merit than "the Jews are like Nazis because they both belong to the species homo sapiens".

Your "Jews are becoming even more like Nazis" is a piece of bigoted irrationality (let's not lie now and omit the "even" to pretend that the comparison was meant to be slight). It's jewbaiting. Nothing you have to say on the subject of the Middle East (or anything else for that matter) can have any merit because it is underpinned by such bigotry. It is futile to debate with prejudice and racism. I don't do it with people who characterize arabs as sub-human or malevolent, and I won't do it with you.

With Jew baiters there can only be one subject. Their bigotry. In everything they post. Your jewbaiting is now out there forever.

 

Ah, so they are not gassing them. That makes their confiscations of land and shooting of protestors OK, does it?

And not Nazi-like?

Perhaps they are more like Stalinists then?

 

You don't get it do you? The views of jewbaiters are worthless. If there is any Palestinian cause, every time a jewbaiter open his mouth or goes to his keyboard, then he devalues it. We've been over it, how the actions of the IDF and Israel can be compared to the actions of many countries and much more appropriately. You prefer to bait Jews than draw meaningful comparisons that truly address the issue. You have simply hijacked a Palestinian cause to express your hatred of Jews. Why should any decent person humour you in that? Your bigoted Jewbaiting has the effect of creating more airstrikes, more settlements, more shootings. It just supports what many Israeli extreme nationalists say - that all their opponents are jewbaiting racists. You collude with them.

Your acting like a de facto fifth columnist agent provocateur, whether consciously or not, that enables anti-arab racists on the other side characterize all champions of the Palestinian cause as jewbaiters. Iolo's nasty attacks on me yesterday, suggesting that I am an Israeli agent, may have been amusing to your jewbaiting cabal of bullies, but it is far more likely that the forum plants from Israeli extremist organizations would act like you than anyone else, discrediting liberals and the Left with your unbridled race hatred.

 

I "get it" perfectly.

When Jews have no answer to perfectly legitimate accusations of oppression they label their accusers "Jew-baiters".

With this circular argument, they can win every time without having to answer for their crimes.

I guess the neo-Nazis use a similar strategy.

 

Read your posts. You have very much conceded the point that you are Jewbaiting.

I'm not Jewish, as I have said very clearly, many times.

I am a Western secular liberal that recognizes and supports the legitimate aspirations of Palestinian arabs ( term that was widely used by early Zionists) and I recognize jewbaiting when I see it.

There is no circular argument. Put aside the race of the protaganists. Quit trying to flamebait the other side with racist comparisons which belittle a whole race's suffering, and address the issue in a rational way and progress can be made.

It is impossible for a jewbaiter to do that, which is why he thinks it is a circular argument.

In fact, in stark contrast to the "one state solution" bigots on both sides of the argument on PF, in real life Palestinian arabs and Israeli jews will build respect for each other and forge a two state solution. If reasonable people can swat away the flies of jew baiters and anti-arab bigots who continually try and distract them from this rational and constructive course of action which is clearly the only logical way to go.

 

Me not being Jewish is a rebuttal of your continuing racism "when Jews have no answer...they". I'm not Jewish. It's me that is debating with you, not "Jews".

The race of the people in the IDF or the West Bank settlers is IRRELEVANT, except to extreme nationalists and racists.

And a direct and equivalent comparison between Israel and Nazi Germany is wholly disproportionate and is very close to holocaust denial. Taken with your "jews are..." racism, it is Holocaust denial and an act of Jewbaiting.

I will keep repeating myself every time you spew your filth.

 

And I have to keep repeating myself. Jews are becoming "more like" Nazis. That does not imply they are gassing Palestinians, as it suits you to think I propose.

And if they are not Jews, who the hell are they? Parties of the First Part?

I find it amusing too that you are now adducing your non-Jewishness as an argument to prove my "Jew-baiting".

Your sophistry seems to have no bounds.

 

The sophistry is all with you. You said "EVEN more like Nazis". I have pointed this out over and over but you keep omiting it. It's there. Your jew-baiting is documented. Stop lying by omiting the "even" word which clearly indicates that you regard Jews and Nazis as equivalent, something that you have repeated over and over again.

As to your other garbage about non Jewishness adding to jew baiting ... you have disappeared up your own ********. I merely said that it isn't "Jews" rebutting you, but that it is me. It isn't just Jews that object to you demonizing them, it is secular liberals. Don't try and ghettoize jews pretending that the whole world agrees with you and it is just the devious Jew and his clever sophistry that wriggles out of it.

"If they are not Jews, who the hell are they?". You say.

Well, if my cousins (*)(*)(*)(*) me off you know I don't tend to think of them as the Jew or the Jewess. I think of them as Joseph or Sarah. I think of their occupations, their families, where they live, what they believe and how they act. In fact their Jewishness is the last thing that occurs to me. Only a Jew baiter and a racist defines someone first by their race. That's how you have been found out. To you the crimes are not acts of bad people, they are acts of Jews. Therein lies all the evil in your posts.

And what is more, you implicate Joseph and Sarah with your racist filth. Jews are becoming even more like Nazis. That's your thread title. That covers my cousins Joe and Sarah. You are calling them Nazis. That's the meaning of the English language no matter how much you bleat, distort or omit crucial words later on. Your dirty little secret is out. You hate Jews, and watch as you get a nice little cabal of jewbaiters lining up behind you.

 

Indeed it is. And it means they are becoming more like Nazis than they were before. How hard is that to understand?

So, in order to play the game you woud like, I would have to retitle the thread to read "Parties of the Third Part are becoming more like Nazis"?

Would that not create confusion about who I am talking about?

 

You're rumbled mate. You have two choices if you want to be accepted by decent people: keep quiet about your filthy views or apologize for them and have a re-think. I could make a list of the disgusting comments and jew-baiting taunts (remember the one that said that joos shouldn't give so much bait out if they didn't want to be baited?) that make your intentions clear.

You have negatively generalized about people based on their race. This is racism. You can wriggle all you like but that doesn't change anything. Thats what racism is. Simple.

Secondly you have compared Jews to Nazis while refusing to talk about the Holocaust, the essence of Nazi identity, which is clearly an act of de facto Holocaust denial, brutally insulting to people who lost relatives there, and a wholly disproportionate comparison which you now try and evade with very weak sophistry (with apologies to the sophists). "Even more like Nazis" is a strong suggestion of equivalence. You've had ample time to withdraw it and apologize for its offensiveness, but you have chosen to exacerbate that jew baiting with flamebait and more jewbaiting.

I can't think of a more effective way, on a forum, to sabotage and damage the cause of Palestinian nationhood.

 

I don't think so. I think you have been.

So my choices are to subscribe to your propaganda or be gagged?

That sounds very Nazi-like to me.

 

Propaganda? This garbage does suggest that your inept use of the English language may be the problem, but you've had enough chances to clear that up.

Nazi? That's just a word that means "horrid" to you isn't it given that you want to decouple it from the Holocaust that you deny. It's Holocaust denial and holocaust minimization that is Nazi as it justifies the modern racial politics of neo Nazi organizations.

I just tell it as it is. Jewbaiters are not generally popular people when they let their prejudices out. You don't believe me, try sharing your filthy views in decent company...

Oh I suppose you could seek out likeminded people who also hate Jews. There you go, a nice third option for you. You can jewbait to your heart's content with them. Does New Zealand have a neo Nazi party?

 

I just joined this forum, been following this thread a bit...

Not all the time you just watch a video from a former Israeli Minister talking about this very subject and here it is being used by you? I couldnt resist posting the video.

I think what Awryly is talking about have legitimate merit that you, Heroclitus with your weak "political correctness" argument don't want to answer? That's unfortunate, you appear to somewhat well versed in these matters, no?

and it is propaganda, by definition.

Israeli Minister "We always use the anti-Semitism trick or bring up the Holocaust"
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW3a1bw5XlE"]Israeli Minister "We always use the anti-Semitism trick or bring up the Holocaust" - YouTube[/ame]

 

If you are following you will see that the act I am challenging here is a comparison of Jews with Nazis. I think its pretty legitimate to "bring up the Holocaust" when a Jew is compared with a Nazi. Other forms of anti-semitism (blood libel for example) may be nothing to do with the Holocaust, but a direct comparison of a Jew with a Nazi must involve the Holocaust.

Now if you want to talk about extremists in Israel or extreme nationalists in Israel or even Israeli fascists, then that is quite another thing. This is certainly not anti-semitic. But this thread characterizes all Jews (the title does this) as Nazis. The actions of Nazis which distinguish them from ordinary criminals need to be included in this discussion.

I am certainly not saying that criticism of Israel is anti-semitic and it is disingenuous of you to imply so, if that is what you are doing. I think blatant jewbaiting and anti-semitism such as is seen here feeds that false point of view. Criticism of Israel is compulsory, as is criticism of every power weilding nation. I will not join a jewbaiter in doing so.

 

Fare enough, I will admit, I read the first page, and the last, missed the middle. My apologies if the intent here was to imply that "all Jews" are Nazi like by the OP, I would also have to agree, that is very abhorrent.

I guess I will watch from the sidelines, once again...

Oops, you edited your post...

Good, because I am very critical Israel, and a "power weilding nation" and as a "concerned American" that seems to be at the beckon call of Israel. I am a ......unsatisfied with western media?

 

Please don't stay on the sidelines. Awrwly here is out of character. He may be salvageable. What shocked me most was the way others lined up behind him to continue the abuse.

I fear that what I had hitherto seen as a right wing slander, that the source of modern anti-semitism was from the Left, has proved to be partially true. For me it has always been the Left and liberals who have fiercely guarded against prejudice and in some ways have cut our teeth of racial awareness on the shocking bigotry of anti-semitism. It was the Left that smashed up fascist and Nazi meetings and who blocked Cable Street. It makes me furious to see these right wing sneerers vindicated by the sight of supposed progressives wearing Nazi clothes. But that is what we have.

Language is very important. It does not just reflect intellect and emotions but it also builds them. Confusing race with actions, even linguistically, affirms a deep racism within. This is what I fear is happening to the Left. As a lifelong anti-racist, I find that shocking. Salesian?

 

Goodness no, not Salesian. Not that that is a bad thing, I just dont really have a singular label that would fit me.

I just do what I think is right, whatever that is. Mostly a centrist, with right leanings. I believe in the individual.

Are you familiar with Douglas Reed?

Just a question, I know the "Holocaust" denier was brought up, just curious what you thought if him as a writer. He wrote, that is was mathematically impossible for there to be 6 million Jews in the whole of occupied Europe at the time of WWII. The reason I ask is because, its not denying that the Holocaust happened, just saying the numbers in question are not exactly accurate. Reed, was a well respected author in Europe at the time of WWII, and in a position to know these sorts of things.

Just a question.