BMW Ends ICE Production in Germany! Mercedes?

EV's are producing improved characteristics in all areas - charge speed, distance, weight, number of charge cycles in a lifetime, etc.

Once again, you just claim your opinion without bothering to look.

Yes, the ICE manufacturers and oil companies are applying serious pressure in this election year.

We have most of 6 years left in that time prediction. And, if there are vehicle types that don't have a full choice of EV analogs, then the rules can change for that.

Still, the world is changing toward EVs. And, that will speed up as manufacturers improve the factors that some believe slow EV sales - cost, variety, quality, charge time, distance, etc., etc.

By then, EVs will be cheaper to manufacture than ICE. And, we'll see the entry of Chinese vehicles.

 

As folks like to say, there's no way to get there from here in terms of making EVs competitive with ICE. The battery is an inherent weakness and there's no magic formula that can make the battery that much better and more versatile.

And in June, it’s quite likely the Supreme Court will take away EPA's ability to force the transition. I suspect that will have a substantial impact on the Paris Accords phony "treaty" global mandates as the US will be forced, by law, to drop out having no mechanism to comply left anymore.

Then the cheap EVs from China will only have Tesla to destroy and take over a very small and irrelevant market in the US while traditional ICE manufacturers get back to doing what they've always done.

And then this whole discussion, and perhaps the entire "global warming" thing will simply go back to the minor irrelevancy it’s always been.

 

I don't think so.

 

Not enough wealthy buyers to continue the EV transition.
The EV market hits the brakes as sales hit a speed bump!
Ronald Stein
The profiles of common folks for potential EV ownership are vastly different from those of current elite EV owners. Summary: We’re running out of elites in the wealthy countries that…

 

Hybrids cannibalizing the EV market.
The ‘greenest’ car in America might surprise you
A new report says a plug-in hybrid can beat out the greenest of electric vehicles.
By Shannon Osaka

 

Do you care to try to defend even ONE of the "points" coming from this Heartland Institute blogger?

In fact, he even starts off with the Hertz story, which we've discussed - clearly not a valid indicator of EV futures.

Why don't you investigate even ONE of these WUWT blogs you post?

 

This site chose hand picked selection of cars to evaluate. It didn't choose any Tesla product or any of the high quality products from other countries. It didn't consider the reason that China views PHEVs as being gas cars, as their analysis shows people rarely plug them in.

If you read their "methodology", you'll find that it is heavily oriented to upstream costs of electricity generation - even getting into the risk of nuclear, etc.. They do not show how they evaluate each car - they simply state considerations that they make.

So, there is no way to know how they actually evaluated the Prius or any other car they chose to evaluate!

I see no consideration of factors related to improvement in battery chemistry in the EV industry, so they could be assumed to be worried about cobalt, while the industry is strongly moving toward batteries with NO cobalt. But, who knows?

Also, the Prius is the only non-EV in the top six of their rankings.

This IS a surprising outcome as the Prius is quite unlikely to perform better than an EV when running on electricity, and the gas motors of PHEVs are not considered to be efficient in comparison to modern gas motors.


I don't see this as an analysis that should change anyone's opinion without significant other evidence.

More WUWT BS from you!

 

Why on earth are you so angry? I believe you don't even own an EV. EVs are still comparatively inferior in major technical ways. And they will likely continue to be for the foreseeable future. That's just a fact. Cobalt or no cobalt.

And what does this mean?

"This IS a surprising outcome as the Prius is quite unlikely to perform better than an EV when running on electricity, and the gas motors of PHEVs are not considered to be efficient in comparison to modern gas motors."

Gas engines are pretty much all equally efficient. Exhaust engine-out is about 30% CO2, 30% H2O, and 40% Nitrogen. Always. Every time. The differences in efficiency between vehicles is largely due to displacement, forced air intake, and drivetrains. And the Prius is one of the best and has been for decades.

Clearly your opinion isn't going to be changed. You're too deep in the "climate change" clap trap. So what?

You go ahead and buy what you want. Take one for your team.

Just as long as you can't mandate that junk for the rest of us.

 

No, ICE engines are not equally efficient.

In fact, EVs are FAR more energy efficient than are ICE engines. ICE engines produce massive amounts of waste heat - requiring powered systems to help eliminate that heat. Also, ICEs have high numbers of moving parts. Transmissions, differentials, oil pumps, pistons, gas pumps, injection systems, air cleaners, etc., etc., all sap energy.

Homeowners who are solar equipped pay far less for electricity, plus electricity is cheaper than fossil fuel for ICE vehicles.

There are usage scenarios where ICE is preferred. But, your absolutism is not even slightly warranted.

 

You're right. Having a career as an automotive powertrain engineer I'm forced to yield to your pointless yammering.

Riight.

 

I know. If you disagreed, you would have the data to rebut what I said - at least on some point.

 

I have. Routinely.

How do you think I know what the components of exhaust gas are?

How do you think I know that any vehicle class outside of light duty (how do you think I know what light duty is?) can't be regulated for fuel economy?

How do you think I know what will happen if Chevron gets overturned?

You're just regurgitating the garbage that comes from EV fanzines. And doing it badly.

 

lol.

 

ICE is more efficient. The energy release is on board which then goes directly to moving the vehicle. The energy release for an EV happens at the power station, often hundreds of miles away. Transmission loses then eat a lot of what's left over. Everything from getting the power to the vehicle to getting it in the vehicle to having it sit in a battery to having to get it out of the battery and to the motors, which are similarly lossy.

We've got folks out here trying to sell solar panels for roofs. So far I count 2 houses (of maybe a few hundred) willing to put up with that ugly crap. It isn't going well.

And, again, EVs suck comparatively at doing work. As defined in physics. It can't get better for EVs. The battery is the limitation. This really becomes obvious when you step up in vehicle class. A truck with a crane can park in the middle of nowhere and proceed to build a building with no electrical infrastructure around for hundreds of miles, and operate continuously for months without having to go find a charging station. Just keep running fuel trucks to the machine. In fact, that's how you'd build a new power plant to power EVs.

And that's the EV Achilles heel.

 

The points need no defense from me. They are all valid. If you care to take issue with any, please proceed.

 

The link is from the Washington Post. You're imagining WUWT everywhere.

 

Almost everyone except maybe small apartment dwellers can store enough gas for emergencies etc. Yep, it’s pretty simple.

Charging ICE vehicles at home can save money as well. Buying when prices are reasonable and delaying purchases when prices are high saves me a lot of dough.

 

Sadly, the WaPo article is nonsense, as pointed out above.

 

As the late great Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan pointed out, you're entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts. Whining about facts you don't like is not an argument.

 

You're reaching for Moynihan!

I addressed why I held the opinion I did, including actual facts - something you aren't able to do on that cite of yours.

 

Moynihan was one of my favorites.
The WaPo article speaks for itself. You just don't like the facts as presented.

 

I pointed out multiple serious defects in that story.

And, you can't refute any of them.

 

They were not defects. You simply thought there should have been a different article.

 

The EV wave has crested.
Climate Change Weekly #499: Is the Bell Tolling for EV Mania?

H. Sterling Burnett

The question really is not whether the bell will toll to call an end of the government’s promotion of EVs, but how soon will it happen. . . .

I have noted before that EVs are in general much more expensive than their roughly comparable ICE counterparts. As such, research shows that most EVs are sold to people in the top two income brackets, making the tax credits and other government support no more than welfare for the well-to-do and politically connected crony-capitalists.

Even with all that support, the chickens are coming home to roost. The stock price of Tesla, the top-selling EV maker, is in freefall, and the company’s declining dividends reflect that. EV rival Rivian is laying off workers as its stock has fallen dramatically on losses topping $1.5 billion. Another early EV entrant, Fisker, has already gone through one bankruptcy and may be lurching towards its second, its value having fallen to the penny stock level.

As EV inventories mount on dealers’ lots, Ford and GM, each of which announced billions of dollars in losses on its EVs, have reduced production lines and cut sales and production outlooks. After spending billions of dollars on various EV efforts, Apple, Inc. cancelled all its EV projects. If one of the most profitable, well-funded corporations in the world can’t make an effective EV and have it go mainstream, who can? . . .

 

Pointing to some EV companies that are trying to enter the market is NOT a methodology for analyzing the EV market. If you want to count dead EV companies, go to China. They have over 100 EV manufacturers, and NOBODY believes more than a small fraction will survive. You can look at the death count.

Plus, so frequently we see fake methods such as visiting auto dealerships to determine sales volumes - when the industry leader and some others do not sell through dealerships.

Yes, Ford and GM are failing at EVs. So what? And, Apple canceled it's project because they gave up on their IE technology, which was the only reason for them to ever build a car.

Pointing at failures is NOT a way of analyzing sales of ANY product.

Also, we're seeing good EVs at competitive prices. Ignoring that is a serious sign of incompetence - or bias.

EV sales are increasing. Prices are coming down. Charging and distance factors are improving in a big way. Charging infrastructure is increasingly available, especially for those using the NACS standard.