Can a Christian lose their salvation? Or, are there former Christians?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Quantrill, Sep 30, 2011.

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  1. Quantrill

    Quantrill New Member

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    No, I didn't 'glide' over anything. The Scriptures in 1Cor. 9 speak to ministry. Verse 25 says, "And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we and incorruptible."

    The 'corruptible crown' is that obtained by the normal racers of a worldly race. The incorruptible crown is that obtained by the Christians in their service in ministry. See 1Cor.3:11-15 Most specifically vs. 14. "If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall recieve a reward. "

    Concerning Ananias and Sapharia, yes , Satan can move believers also. He can influence them. Acts 5:34 indicates we are talking about believers. Just because Satan moved them, does not take away their salvation from God.

    Quantrill
     
  2. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree.





    .....
     
  3. saintmichaeldefendthem

    saintmichaeldefendthem New Member Past Donor

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    Score! The mistake of Annanias and Saphira is no indicator of their eternal fate. In fact, it could be seen as an act of mercy that God took them before they had opportunity to compound their grievious offense any further. There is no tripflare that automatically sends believers to hell if they accidently trigger it. God isn't cruel.
     
  4. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And...what is that "reward?" It is your "eternal reward" is it not? It is salvation. Thanks for proving my point.
     
  5. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So....they are rewarded with Heaven for lying?



    . Don't you see how flawed that is???
     
  6. Quantrill

    Quantrill New Member

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    Judas was one of the 12. He was not saved. Why should he be when Jesus said he was the devil?

    Quantrill
     
  7. Anobsitar

    Anobsitar Banned

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    Someoen likes to turn the words of my grandfather David against me? ... Let's take a look ... oh: it's not a song from David it's written from Asaf - who for heavens sake was/is Asaf? ...

    -----

    God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the 'gods': 'How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked? Defend the weak and the fatherless; uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked. 'The “gods” know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. 'I said, “You are 'gods'; you are all sons of the Most High.” But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler.' Rise up, O God, judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance. http://youtu.be/YaqQnhBtxaI

    -----

    Wonderful Psalm. Whatever you are interpreting is a nonsense. Compared with an animal we are a little in the situation of gods - but even in this case we all are doing are more than bad job only and we are even bad sisters and bad brothers to animals.

    http://youtu.be/OXanHvrjQO0
     
  8. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree with what you say--but that is no guarantee of immediate occupancy of Heaven. Thank God for Purgatory!!!
     
  9. saintmichaeldefendthem

    saintmichaeldefendthem New Member Past Donor

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    I think Quantrill is referring to treasures we can build up in heaven above and beyond the simple fact of salvation. Jesus tells us to store up our treasures in heaven. The Bible touches upon this theme repeatedly, that the only thing we can take with us when we die is our good works. Think Parable of the Talents.
     
  10. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Jesus told Peter "Get behind me Satan!"--Does that mean Peter isn't "saved?"


    You're not answering the question, you are just asserting an opinion.
     
  11. saintmichaeldefendthem

    saintmichaeldefendthem New Member Past Donor

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    Indeed! It should be noted joyfully that Purgatory is a preparation for heaven.

     
  12. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    Where in the Bible does it say that "Judas was the devil"?
     
  13. Anobsitar

    Anobsitar Banned

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    Do you ask me something?

    http://youtu.be/YenBW3P1JRo
     
  14. saintmichaeldefendthem

    saintmichaeldefendthem New Member Past Donor

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    John 6:70
    Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”
     
  15. Quantrill

    Quantrill New Member

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    No, if you look at vs 11 you will see the foundation is already laid. Now believers are building on that foundation. And recieving rewards or crowns for it.

    Such as 1Thess.2:19...a crown of rejoicing.

    2Timothy 4:8...a crown of righteousness

    James 1:12...a crown of life

    Rev. 3:11 is a warning to watch lest some take thy crowns

    Rev. 4:10 these crowns or rewards are laid at Christs feet.

    The incorruptible crowns are rewards for ministry or service to the Lord.

    Quantrill
     
  16. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    It is really nice of you to make a false representation. Did I say anything about David or Asaph? No? Then I commend you on your excellent failure on misrepresenting someone. All I gave was the reference. Now, does the scripture there in Psalm 82 state 'I have said you are gods'? or not? Or are you going to give it your private interpretation? I am giving no interpretation of that passage. I am taking that passage at face value.
     
  17. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nonetheless--whether it is read as "lest I be a castaway" or "lest I be disqualified"--the point is that one can LOSE the reward.

    The following chapter proves it:

    [11] Now these things happened to them as a warning, but they were written down for our instruction, upon whom the end of the ages has come.
    [12] Therefore let any one who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.
    [13] No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
     
  18. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It said in one of the Gospels that "Satan entered him."
     
  19. Quantrill

    Quantrill New Member

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    No, they are rewarded heaven for trusting Christ. They are judged by God and killed for lying.

    Quantrill
     
  20. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Paul wanted to be rid of the body to be with God. Would he not have characterized abandoning the flesh as reward?

    Your theology fails here.
     
  21. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    It is really nice of you to make a false representation. Did I say anything about David or Asaph? No? Then I commend you on your excellent failure on misrepresenting someone. All I gave was the reference. Now, does the scripture there in Psalm 82 state 'I have said you are gods'? or not? Or are you going to give it your private interpretation? I am giving no interpretation of that passage. I am taking that passage at face value.

    BTW: You may consider yourself as a brother or sister to the lesser animals, but that is your cup of tea. Of course, you probably didn't see that passage in Genesis wherein God gave to man, dominion of everything that creepeth upon the face of the earth. Hmmm.
     
  22. Quantrill

    Quantrill New Member

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    I did answer your question. I said Judas was not saved, though he was one of the twelve.

    Quantrill
     
  23. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How do you know that?
     
  24. saintmichaeldefendthem

    saintmichaeldefendthem New Member Past Donor

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    So you can't see through your own gimmick, how you've set yourself up so you can never be wrong? It's your opinion that Judas wasn't saved because any other opinion would reveal the flaw in your OSAS belief. Your argument is only "It is because I think it is" and not based on any syllogism of logic. The fact is, you can't assert that Judas was unsaved any more than I can assert that he was. We don't know. Using this as fodder for your argument is foolhardy.
     
  25. _Inquisitor_

    _Inquisitor_ Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe that one day you (or something) can change your mind and you’d be capable of believing the opposite: that you have no soul and/or it is mortal, and/or living not as G-d ordained is no risk and does not matter?

    Do you have to make hard efforts to keep/preserve your faith that in not living according to what you know God has ordained, you risk your immortal soul.? If you do you’re still to receive the gift of faith. If you don’t you understand me now you can see that my belief is not in a contradiction to yours, but it is in accordance.


    Again, why if you have the faith above G-d would want to try or tempt you? It is Satan who would want to try or tempt you. How do you know that the Satan is not doing it now? Do you have faith in your intellectual abilities and your understanding of scriptures – (which you want (if you want) not to take literally) or you have faith in God? Does G-d need your protection? Does G-d – who loves you so much that He sent his own Son… - need your love or want you to match His’ – do you think you are capable of that? Does G-d want you to fail? Answer these questions.

    How does a false prophecy arise and are not false prophets sure that they are doing good for G-d? Listen, sister. I took in academic hours on the level of the MIT or similar – 320 of higher mathematics, 250+ of higher physics, 170+ of thermodynamics, 120+of heat and mass exchange – and it is not even a third – and I laugh at theory of evolution on the base of my education, while you believe in it and promote it. Are you sure that I am wrong and you are not promoting a diabolic belief? You will fail and only G-d knows how deep you will fail, when you think you have repented everything, and if you are not failing now misrepresenting Him if you are not moved by Satan. But there is one thing I believe in – that G-d - if you have the said above faith in him – will not fail you.


    It is true by the definition – if you accept IX as the Xavier you accept that there is something you have to be saved from and that there is no way for you to do it on your own and that Savier is not a punisher; so rejoice sister, I am saying, rejoice!

    I am not claiming that I am more righteous than you are and more close to the Truth, I am not even trying and I am not trying to win or even enter a competition in such matters because I believe that would be following a temptation; I just share my joy and my perspective, and accept other perspectives as long as they share the same joy, faith, hope and love.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te3MXnwHrno&feature=related"](HD) Mariah Carey - Joy To The World (Live ABC Christmas Special) - YouTube[/ame]
     
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