Can a Christian lose their salvation? Or, are there former Christians?

In Quantrills professed theology here--you CAN'T know because you can't see into the future. But maybe...because you did believe once...so, yes...you are saved, even if you later find there are too many questions you have and decide to forget about all this God stuff. But really, if God didn't really call you to be one of the elect, you won't go to heaven whether you struggle with the God question or not....so....yes, I mean, no, I mean....um....yeah....no.

 

No. You don't chop it up to fit your theology.

You study it to be able to find those lines of subjects, to divide it 'rightly'.

What is so ironic about that? And I showed you through Romans 9-11, that this was indeed the subject matter.

Quantrill

 

How do you know you are saved, Quantrill? Do you know the mind of God and who is written in the Book of Life?

 

Because the word the KJV rendered as "divide" doesn't mean to break it up into parts--it mean to use it rightly. You are not, IMO.

 

Did you read the context of the part of the Bible you are paraphrasing, or are you just spewing by rote what you think it says completely out of context?

 

Please don't misrepresent me. The idividual himself who is saved can know he is saved if he has come to Christ.

But, people, especially on a forum, can tell you things that may not be true. So, I do not try and give assurance that I know someone is saved. I can give assurance that if you have accepted Christ as your Lord and Saviour, believing He is the Son of the living God, then your are saved.

Quantrill

 

Yes, I know I am saved. I believe Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God and I have accepted Him as my Lord and Saviour.

I know the mind of God as is given in the Scriptures.

Quantrill

 

To recognize the lines of subjects that the Bible addresses and to interpret based on the subject matter, is to rightly divide or rightly use the Bible.

You do the same thing with 'theology'. You note certain verses are dealing with a certain subject.

Well, I am, in my opinion.

Quantrill

 

Yes, I have read the context.

Quantrill

 

Except that you do have that little caveat that one has to be "elect" and that only God knows.

 

Election is a truth taught in the Bible. Given to us to know the 'truth' of it. Not given to know who is elect and who isn't. It is Gods side of it.

If there are 10 people in a room who are not Christians, I don't know and am not concerned if they are elect or not. I witness to them about Jesus Christ.

Lets say 3 of them come to Christ as their Lord and Saviour and are saved. I know then that they were elect of God. As for the others, I still don't know as some come at different times.

But I do know, because of Scripture, that none come, unless God opens their eyes.

Quantrill

 

Your certainty in that is NOT Biblical at all.


2 Peter 3:
15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Again...No eternal security!

 

I agree with that--but now you just contradicted yourself in counting yourself among the elect. YOU don't know--GOD knows.

 

Please explain how this verse proves my certainty is not Biblical. And that how it proves there is no eternal security.

Quantrill

 

No, I have not contridicted myself. When one believes on Jesus Christ and comes to Him for salvation, then he is saved. And I know that one is elect.

Until one comes to Christ, I can't know.

So, I have come to Christ. I know I am one of the elect, as all are who have come to Christ.

Quantrill

 

"beware" "Lest ye also be led away" onto "destruction."

"Also" Indicates that the fate is the same.

You cannot see the future--you do not know your future--you may NOT be of the elect--you MAY "fall away," God knows, but YOU do not. God's certainty of who is of the elect and who is not is sure and eternal, but YOUR certainty is NOT something to be "secure" in. Sure you may have confidence, but not certainty. If you are not elect, there is nothing you can do to make it so.

God has the eternal perspective--He knows what you will chose in the future whereas YOU do not. That is how you may NOT be one of the elect, though you think you are right now.

I hope you are right about your eternal fate. The stubbornness you show in your responses give me pause, however.

 

Ample Biblical evidence shows you that one must REMAIN in Christ--not just call upon him one day and Heaven is assured.

 

2Peter 3:16 speaks of false teachers who are in the church. " which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. "

These are the same Peter spoke of in 2:1 " But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in (*)(*)(*)(*)able heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. "

These are not those who are believers and lose salvation.

In 2Peter 3:17 Peter is warning the believers not to be led astray by these false teachers. To do so means they lose, not their salvation, but their steadfastness.

These are believes who may lose their continual standing and service but not salvation.

Concerning my election, yes, I know I am elect because I have placed faith in Christ. That will not change.

You misunderstand election completely. God does not look into the future and then knows what is going to happen. God knows because He declares it will be. The elect are known by God. He will save the elect. The elect are those who place faith in Christ. Eternal security.

Quantrill

 

I haven't seen any yet.

Quantrill

 

I've answered this question for you several times, why do you keep asking the same thing?

 

What that means is that people here on earth can only hurt your physical body, they can kill you, but that is the most they can do, they cannot kill your soul. Your soul is the one that goes up to be with Jesus when a Christian dies.

In other words, God is the only one that can destroy your soul.

You've contradicted your own statement. Look at "e" - only God can give you over to eternal misery in hell - no one here on earth can do that.

That is where those that do not believe that Jesus is the Son of God and accept Him as their Lord will end up.

That is what God did with Adam and Eve, He removed His spirit from them.

If God removed His spirt from Adam and Eve before Eve got pregnant, God's spirit was no longer there to pass on. Those without God's spirit within them (Holy Spirit) are known to be spiritually dead. It is just a phrase that has been accepted to mean that they don't have God's spirit within them. They have a spirit, but it isn't God's. When one accepts Jesus as their Lord, the Holy Spirit comes to abide in that person, and he is now spiritually alive.

 

The decision to believe in God or not is a completely free decision. Once you have believed (sincerely), you are sealed by the Holy Spirit - in other words, God's spirit comes to live in your heart. You are His and He tells us that no-one can snatch them out of His hand - which includes yourself. Noone means not one person - that includes self.

 

You just went against what you have been saying. Annanias and Saphira sinned, they lied by omission, what they had gotten paid for their property. They also by omission were leading the believers to think they were giving all of the money over. That is pride - also a sin. They were struck dead, so by your account, they should have gone to hell, but now you are claiming that their sin was no indicator of their eternal fate. You are right, if they had sincerely believed in Jesus, they had their salvation, and their sin would not take it away.
(This of course we do not know - we do not know if their belief was sincere to begin with) but your comment leans to OSAS!

Oh, now you are saying that one must accumulate a number of sins before we are destined to go to Hell? There is only one sin that sends you to hell, and that is the sin of not accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

The one sin that will not be forgiven, blaspheming the Holy Spirit. When you reject Jesus as the Son of God you are in essence rejecting God and the Holy Spirit.

 

All you have proven is that you haven't read or understood much of what is in the Bible.

Jesus encourages the persecuted believers to be faithful, even to the point of death. Even when faced with the potential of martyrdom, they should remember that a reward will await them. Often, the "crown" is used to symbolize this and similar rewards. However, it would be useful to establish early in the text that this crown does not refer to the reward of eternal life. Rather, it refers to a reward that will be given those who have already received eternal life, a reward for faithful service to God. There will be a point when we "cast our crowns" at Jesus feet (Rev. 4:10.) Obviously, we are not casting away eternal life. Also to interpret the crown of eternal life as salvation would contradict the salvation experienced by those same faithful who are not martyred.

The ancient Christians were familiar with crowns. We think of a King’s crown of gold and jewels, and certainly Kings of their day wore elaborate crowns. In our time there are no other applications of the word. However, the same word is used in the early church to describe the crown of flowers, laurel, or olive branches that were worn by pagan worshipers and victors at athletic competition. The word for crown used here is more indicative of the latter of these, a reward for successfully finishing the race. It was a symbol that had little intrinsic value as a bejeweled gold crown would have. Instead its value is seen as a symbol of the value of the wearer who earned it. This gives the concept of the crown an entirely new meaning, one that is consistent with the crown of life.http://www.biblicaltheology.com/rev/66_02_10.html

 

You sure like to take one verse out of the Bible and try to make a whole point with it. That is deceptive. Are you really sincere in your questions or are you trying to be the devil's advocate? You have to take all that is in the Bible to form your opinions, not just one verse.

First of all, Jesus knows when Satan speaks for us (when we sin, we are actually doing what the devil wants us to do). Peter believed and knew that Jesus was the Son of God - his proclamation is in the Bible. Jesus knew that what Peter was suggesting was coming from Satan, not that Peter was Satan. Just like Judas, his actions were coming from Satan, only difference is that Judas never proclaimed Jesus as Lord, never repented or asked forgiveness for his sin.



John 13:27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. " -What you are about to do, do quickly," Jesus told him,