Can You Believe in God and Evolution?

Capitalize whatever you like. I will do the same.

Quantrill

 

Quantrill, the relationship isn't between the Bible and science. It is between your interpretation of the bible and science. The Bible doesn't teach science nor is it intended to. It teaches moral lessons and it uses stories and quotations as a vehicle for doing so. The people who wrote the Bible in the second century AD weren't scientists. They were religious scholars. Since we know without any doubt whatsover that men don't walk on water and that a month and a half of rain couldn't flood the planet, the best approach is to view these biblical stories as a means to teach moral lessons to mostly uneducated people. The fact that some of these stories are miraculous in nature simply make them more effective for the audience of the time.

A good example is the star that guided the wise men to Bethlehem was probably a ture story. Cosmologists believe that a supernova occured around that time and what is left over from that explosion is now called the Crab nebula. The authors of Bible didn't know what a supernova was. They just described a bright star that shone day and night. It doesn't put the Bible at odds with science. It is simply a different way to describe an observed phenomenon.

I think you will agree that smart people will change their minds when they think things through and discover new information or twists as they do it. Go back and rethink your interpretation of the Bible. If you view it as a moral lesson book written using historical anecdotes to make the points, you will never have your beliefs conflict with scientifically observable facts. And you won't reduce the Bible's value either. It is a great piece of literature no matter how you interpret it.

The problem is that evolution is scientifically investigated and observed fact. Your interpretation of the Bible is faith. I'm not trying to get you to believe that scientific observation is more valuable than faith. I'm just suggesting that you can rationalize both if you take a second look at the part that is faith and concentrate on fitting the observable world into your beliefs.

 

I'm not sure why people want to think of atheism as a religion. I would view it as lack of religious beliefs. It surprises me that atheists become evangelistic just like religious believers. It seems to me they would simply shrug their shoulders when they encounter religious beliefs. But they don't. Frankly it is a head scratcher for me and it makes me wonder if the evangelical aren't really uncomfortable in their beliefs.

 

Excellent post..........

 

The Bible is not a book on science. But when it touches upon any subject dealing with science, it does so without error.

The Bible is not just a bunch of good stories to help us in our so called morality. It is the Word of God. What it says is literal and true unless indicated otherwise, as a parable or allegory, of which even those point to a literal truth.

You need to check your information as to how and when the various books of the Bible were written. And the human writers were not religious scholars. They were mostly ordinary men used by God.

When your dealing with God, the miraculous is not a reason to dismiss what is said as just a myth to help out your morality. It says Jesus walked on water because Jesus walked on water. It says the flood covered the earth in Noah's day because the flood covered the earth in Noah's day.

We don't need a scientific 'supernova' to accept what is being said in the Bible. Whatever the star was, it led the wise men. And it led them to the place where Jesus was. Coincidence ?

No, the Bible is the Word of God, and nothing less. And I do not view it as a moral lesson book. It is the Word of God revealed to believers for the believers in their walk of redeemption.

I have no problem fitting the observable world into my beliefs. It was created by God. All of its laws and everything.

Quantrill

 

The Bible is a great book, and it is to be revered in the wisdom that is contains, but it is NOT to be worshiped.

What version of the Bible do you use? That's not what my Bible says:
[2] I bow down toward thy holy temple
and give thanks to thy name for thy steadfast love and thy
faithfulness;
for thou hast exalted above everything
thy name and thy word.

Because you drive people away from His flock.

 

No, the Bible is the Word of God. I view it as the Word of God.

I use the King James Version.

If I drive people away then they need to be driven away. You and others accept any and all without the perimeters specified in the Bible. Thus you invite nothing.

Quantrill

 

What means "No"?

http://youtu.be/ox0SGt0Ovz0

 

That is a matter of opinion and faith. What I'm trying to do is to get you to think past that. I'd like you to understand that it is your stubborn attachment to the literal words that get in your way. Christians (most of them, in fact) don't face your problem because they interpret things differently. Shouldn't the observable world cause you to rething things?

See my comment above.

I understand. Many of the books were written in the second century. It doesn't change my point. Even religious scholars and scientists are ordinary men, after all.

Hopefully, you take a more open minded approach to reading other things.

Of course not, nor did I say so. What I said was that science and the Bible can provide two different interpretations of the same observable fact. Your interpretation is faith. The other is scientific observation. Same phenomenon.

Obvsiously you aren't open to any questions about your faith so I'll leave you alone going forward.

I agree with you. I just don't view things the way you do. To me God is the laws of nature and physics, the big bang, the observable universe, we humans - all of those things. I agree with the scientists that it appears our universe began as a tremendous exposion and has "evolved" since - all by the hand of God or Mother Nature or the first cause or Einstein's laws or whatever you wish to call it all. Best of luck to you.

 

Not capitalized, it isn't.

the errors of that translation don't bother you? I mean, for the most part, it's decent, but it's not the best translation. Unless, there is some other reason why you use KJV....

What gives you that authority? Do you forget Titus 2[7] Show yourself in all respects a model of good deeds, and in your teaching show integrity, gravity,
[8] and sound speech that cannot be censured, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say of us. ...[11]For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all men,

As another Christian, it kind of pisses me off, how you represent Christianity. Jesus ate with tax collecters and prostitutes, he walked with those who challenged him, and corrected with love rather than vitriol.

If you think yourself elect of God, it is wrong for you to shun others whom you consider not elect. It isn't Biblical and you are being a "whited sepulcher."
See: 1 Cor. 8
[4] ... we know that...that "there is no God but one."
...
[6]...for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
[7]However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through being hitherto accustomed to idols, eat food as really offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled.
...
[9] Only take care lest this liberty of yours somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.
[10] For if any one sees you, a man of knowledge, at table in an idol's temple, might he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols?
[11] And so by your knowledge this weak man is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died.
[12] Thus, sinning against your brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.

 

You're right. I was wrong. It is the 5th commandment. Late night.

There is no such word as boared unless you're saying it's time to get attacked by a wild pig.

And you said you take the Bible literally. Which started all your bullsh1t. All I stated was that it needs to be interpreted. LOTS of it. Even the parts where Jesus is speaking directly - and not in parables, allegories or anything else. Still needs interpretation.
That would be right about where you started calling me and two others, ignorant and not Christians because of your claim that you "take the Bible literally".

 

And where's written now in your understanding of the bible "God knows everything and is allmighty as long as he has the allowness of Quantrill" or "I fire all Christians and do their jobs myselve" or something like this?

http://youtu.be/1PdyHcJgYI4

 

It is the declaration of the Bible. Which I believe. Why do I want to get past that? So I can be unbelieving like the rest. No thanks. The Spirit world is observable with those with eyes to see. The nautural world has nothing to offer in terms of my walk with God.

But, the human writers of the Bible were not religious scholars for the most part. Just ordinary men. But the Spirit of God moved upon these men to produce the writings of the Bible. Making it the Word of God.

Well, there is only one Book of God, the Bible.

Well, you say science can observe the same thing and come up with a scientific answer. Maybe, sometimes. But a scientific answer is not needed for the Christian to know God was in it. In fact, science is trying to come up with answers for many miracles in the Bible which in their eyes makes them not miracles. So the intent is not always just to observe science. Its to provide a scientific answer to prove the Bible isn't true.

Yes, you agree with science's view of creation. I do not. I agree with the Bible's declaration of God in the creation.

Thanks, and pleasure speaking to you.

Quantrill

 

Except life ... what is always both as well nature and spiritual - and you would know this if you would see with your eyes. All around you is the most worthful matter of the whole universe - much more worthful than gold: Life. If someone denies the absolute worth of life in this world here or in the other world there - how could he be happy with an eternal life after death?

-----

Father Francis and his companions were making a trip through the Spoleto Valley near the town of Bevagna. Suddenly, Francis spotted a great number of birds of all varieties. There were doves, crows and all sorts of birds. Swept up in the moment, Francis left his friends in the road and ran after the birds, who patiently waited for him. He greeted them in his usual way, expecting them to scurry off into the air as he spoke. But they moved not.

Filled with awe, he asked them if they would stay awhile and listen to the Word of God. He said to them: “My brother and sister birds, you should praise your Creator and always love him: He gave you feathers for clothes, wings to fly and all other things that you need. It is God who made you noble among all creatures, making your home in thin, pure air. Without sowing or reaping, you receive God’s guidance and protection.”

source: http://www.americancatholic.org/features/francis/stories.asp

-----

 

The Bible is the Word of God whether you capitalize it or not. If you don't want to capitalize it, don't. I will.

The King James Version is an excellent version. I doubt it will ever be bettered. Yes, there are some mistakes in some of the things translated, but nothing serious, and we know where they are.

And what of Titus 2:7? Just because you and others who compromise the Word of God want to say my speech is not as Titus 2:7 says it should be, means nothing to me. If you and others had a correct view of God and Scripture, it might mean something.

Well, it bothers me the way you and others represent Christianity, God, and Christ. My purpose is to present the truth as the Bible says. And let the chips fall. The Holy Spirit can use it however he likes. I don't bring people to Christ, and I don't run them away. I present the truth and leave the results to the Holy Spirit.

I am elect of God because I have placed faith in Jesus Christ. I cannot say who the non-elect are as I don't know. I witness to all. And if one comes to Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit, then I know he/she is an elect of God.

My brethren are those who are Christians. I am not sinning against my brethren.

Quantrill

 

I understand.

True, and been there also.

Literal is an interpretation.

Well, it all depends on what parts you are talking about. When it says Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God and you tell me you don't take that literally, then yes, I will say you are not a Christian. Thats not hard.

Quantrill

 

Again, if I drive people away then they need to be driven away. What I say is based upon the Scripture. If you want to go away because of that, then go away.

Quantrill

 

The life I live is Spirit. Rom.8:5 " For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. "

Quantrill

 

Luke 3
[7] He said therefore to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
[8] Bear fruits that befit repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, `We have Abraham as our father'; for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham.
[9] Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."



I would examine my soul if I were you.

 

Good verses. And I do examine my soul.

Quantrill

 

Hmmmm. So not wrong about any thing in any way. Not surprising.
Then you write that somewhere I claimed "Christ is the Son of the living God and you tell me you don't take that literally" which is absolute bullsh1t lies. But okay, so you'll lie in order to maintain that you're somehow right. Also not surprising. Must be your Christian ethics & humility, eh?

But the Bullsht of the Year Award goes to: "Literal is an interpretation."

Like I said, not that I ever expected you to admit you could have possibly been wrong about anything in any way. Just a bunch a bullsh1t excuses and now lies. Why? Because someone has such a weak ego, they would lie, rationalize and just plain bullsht, than just say "Hey, I was wrong."
Well don't worry about it. There are LOTS of Christians out there exactly the same way. No wonder so many people get turned off to Christianity.

Literal is an interpretation!

Dude, Congratulations! You're my new Signature!

 

Quantril.... The Bible doesn't mention dinosaurs either. Does that mean they didn't exist?

Maybe the people who wrote it forgot to mention dinosaurs, evolution, etc.

This is why religous books should be used as a textbook for faith, not science......

A religious person who believes in God doesn't believe enough if he can't even consider God being behind evolution. This would be limiting God's power. That's a no-no.

You also have to be totally ignorant to think you can't be religous and believe scientific facts. I don't know any religion that tells us to be ignorant.

 

I didn't say you said it. I was giving it as an example. Take it anyway you like. It doesn't matter to me.

I will admit I am wrong, if I am wrong. So far that award has gone to you, the genius. Remember.

It's not about ego. Its about being right with God and the Scriptures. Go ahead and get turned off with Christianity, if you misrepresenting what I say turns you away, then your not looking anyway.

Get in line.

Quantrill

 

No, Dinosaurs existed.

God gave the method of creating man. Evolution wasn't it.

The Bible is the absolute truth. Thus if it speaks concening anything having to do with science it does so without error.

Believing the Bible is not limiting God.

I have no problem believing science. As long as it doesn't contridict Scripture.

Quantrill

 

And bible is true because you believe that. Yeah. You are a extremist and fundamentalist, exactly equal that the extremist and fundamentalist islamists. You are the same.

Ah, and also do you take literally the old testament?