Christian influence in society? Yes. A theocracy? No

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by XXJefferson#51, Sep 17, 2022.

  1. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    Nobody should ever listen to leftists regarding fake Christians.
     
  2. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    Classic "no true Scotsman" fallacy.
     
  3. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    He is only arguing your case if you want the schools to actually educate children. But it seems you are not arguing for that but for teachers to indoctrinate children in the woke lefty religion.
     
  4. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    Christ would not have lied to people to lure them to the US border, Christ would not have put politics above people, Christ would not promote homosexuality or any of the LGBT agenda or lifestyle, Christ would not promote abortion on demand, Christ would not support socialism, Christ would never be a democrat.
     
  5. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A Borg Theocracy .. LOL .. yes .. I suppose that is true :) .. but this particular theocracy is not.
     
  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your blasphemy of Jesus is falsehood and deception, as one would expect from those on the dark path - substituting "The Word" with man made dogma.

    To the bigot the xenophobe Jesus says - "take log out of own eye"
    To the homophobe - Let ye who is without sin . cast first rock --

    Abortion - Jesus would not wish his followers to force religious beliefs on others through physical violence (Law) - as per the Golden Rule Matt 7:12 ..

    Jesus is a fan of social welfare programs - helping the poor and needy ---- would never be a Conservative - especially not a Religious Right Fundamentalist conservative who he despises .. for as we read in Scripture again from Matt 7 - the sermon the Pentecostals and those who speak in tongues love to hate .. fundamentalist kryptonite of a sort.

    Like the Tim Tebow's of the world crying "Jesus Jesus" "Lord Lord" and doing a prayer dance in the middle of the field after a touchdown
    Know you not the Lord ..
     
  7. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    I think he's laboring under the impression that critical race theory and critical sex theory and all the BS that teachers are teaching at least to some degree is education it's not.

    It's not education if you're teaching someone something that's wrong. That's not teaching that's unteaching.

    I presume he doesn't want to get into those details
     
  8. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    You repeat the same arguments and even the same verses for every subject. You are a fraud.
     
  9. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    You still have not answered my question despite promising to answer.

    Have you accepted Jesus as your lord and savior and been baptized?
     
  10. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    And yet American freedom, rights, and equality, are based on the self evident truth that there is one God from whom we all spring. This is laid out in our Declaration of Independence. In following, the Revolutionary War which we fought was to securing this end, and therefore inherent in our Constitution. "We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator......appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world....and with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence....declare our independence." DOI

    American freedom is hardly a purely secular matter. Clearly it is that the spiritual has become physical, the concept put into play, from inspiration to innovation. So to say that Christians should have no say in freedom is to utter the impossible, as if there should be no place in the air for oxygen, no place for heavenly bodies in the heavens, or for gratitude in our souls. It is a vacancy of reason.

    And so, our religious liberty isn't a question of whether or not God exists and has made us free. But is a bulwark to Satan in defense of the very matter that there shall be no other God but he of our freedom.
     
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  11. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Religion is unhinged on both sides of the political aisle. Be it Christian Theocracy on the right or the Church of Woke on the left. Both need reigning in.
     
  12. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Do you not see the irony in claiming that serving God brings you freedom? It strikes me very odd that people who feel such a strong need to invent a God to enslave themselves to then claim this is freedom.
     
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I told you I have been baptized twice ..and told you I don't accept your "Free Pass" ideology .. and when you didn't like the answer told you to clarify but you did not .. so why you speaking falsely .. claiming I did not answer your question ?

    "You are a Fraud" cried the name calling blasphemer of Jesus - in yet another desperate to deflect from the Teachings of Jesus. These are not my arguments - these are the arguments of Jesus from which you run. Why are you trying to demonize me - and call me a fraud - for showing you the teachings of Jesus .. from which you now run .. complaining that I have repeated these teachings previously ..

    I understand that you despise the teachings of Jesus - and do not want to hear them repeated but, when you seek to supplant those teachings .. with man made dogma - comitting the unforgivable sin - I am compelled to correct your blasphamy - by stating the Truth .. stating what the True Teachings of Jesus are .. and repeat them again if you continue try to supplant the teaching of our Lord with man made heresy.
     
  14. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    And yet we live, beholden like slaves to all of the natural worlds requirements of gravity, heat, cold, inclement weather, hunger, thirst, and so on. Is it so awful, or is it a privilege.

    In retrospect, to whom do we credit this wondrous thing? When we are young, our Parents provide and our friends lift us up. And we are moved to gratitude in stride. But about it all, to whom do we give honor. Are we simply figures in a snow globe, mindless of the hand of our turning? Why look outward and wonder the kindness of our being and existence. Is it a fault in our construct, the want to bless the cause of this miracle. Mens descriptions of Gods true nature aren't necessarily accurate. People will say and do what they will. But the truth is ours to find.

    If you aren't moved to wonder and give thanks, then don't. If you prefer the straight line of the science of ever evolving and never knowing more than that, then do. I personally have reached my summit and gone full circle to the beginning and the end. I know that God is real, that he lives and is divine. And I don't find it burdensome or restrictive, more than exacting in the putting away of falsehoods in the maintenance of my soul. In all things, we make preparations. We prepare our home for visitors. Should we not prepare ourselves for God?

    That may sound trite, self serving and self deluding. You can water it down by relegating it to a personal belief, nearer to a fantasy in the marketplace of wares, next to the table selling genie lamps. Or it is the truth and I actually know what I am saying. What astonishes me are those who say I cannot possibly know such a thing, as if I am too plain and unremarkable.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2022
  15. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    Well said and right on! :applause:
     
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  16. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    And you still won’t answer a simple yes or no question:

    Have you accepted Jesus as your lord and savior and been baptized?
     
  17. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Why do you need to credit it to anyone?

    Yes. Yes it is.

    As you said, we have our parents to thank, our friends to thank, our fellow humans to thank for what they do for us, and even our non-human animal friends to thank for keeping us company. That's plenty of thanks to give.

    You've convinced yourself of that, ok. I take no issue with that. Though it would cause me concern if you then obeyed this being you imagine like an obedient slave to a dictator, and it would especially alarm me if you let others, such as preachers or writers of scripture tell you what this dictator demands of you. It would be a subdual of your own sense of right and wrong, and that would be very alarming indeed.

    Now, all that said, I notice that you didn't answer the question you quoted:

    You may think you have great reason to make yourself a slave to God, but can you also see that this restricts your freedom? That was my point. A Christian saying that they have greater freedom based on God makes no sense. I would instead expect them to say they value the restriction of their freedom, to bring it into line with God's demands, etc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2022
  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is not one question .. but two questions .. so it is not a simple yes or no .. as could be yes to one .. and no to the other. But I answered both so not sure why you are still pretending otherwise.. in this web of deceit .. away from the Teachings of Jesus.

    Got a question for you though .. see if you will run away again - Do you believe in the Trinity in which King Solomon Believed .. and the Child Sacrifice to YHWH as practiced by the great King .. and speaking of homosexuality .. what was the purpose of the male prostitutes in the temple of YHWH ?
     
  19. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    There's no Christian theocracy in this country it's the farthest thing from what is ever going to happen.

    If you hear from the Christian church people trying to remove the First amendment which only happens on the woke side then I'll believe the theocracy crap.
     
  20. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    What indication do you have that Solomon believed in a trinity or that there were gay prostitutes in the temple?
     
  21. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not sure the prostitutes in the temple were gay - but Male Prostitutes in the Temple of YHWH is from the Bible - perhaps they were for ritual relations with the ladies .. not sure ... which is why I asked the question. Could be polemics added by later redacters .. but we are going from the literalist perspective ..

    Solomon's Trinity -- now that is an interesting question .. The Israelites are still wildly polytheistic at this time .. and King Solomon is no different .. so the question is not so much if he believed in a Trinity .. but more which one's he believed in. ..

    My question is a bit more specific though .. inquiring about who would be in his YHWH Trinity .. and how many children did he sacrifict to God YHWH .. when not busy sacrificing Moleck .. of which YHWH got upset.. wanting more for himself.. as a greedy Jealous God..

    YHWH - Asherah - El is a good possibility. Father - Mother - Son
     
  22. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    No more of a loss of freedom than ones obligations to ones own conscience, values, and the requirements of mortality. All of which one serves. Everything in life requires sacrifice and servitude, from the basics to whether it's a better car, better home, better relationship, or better health.

    Contrary to the idea of pointless servitude, there is freedom in God. First, in knowing God or being known by him, there is the ending of the endless search of men's philosophies and religions to satisfy ones thirst and hunger which impel one thusly for the cause of peace. There is the relief and freedom in the knowledge that God lives and that all things are in his hands. And that after all we can do, his judgment is just and fair.

    There is relief and freedom in repentance and forgiveness, such that one needn't spend ones energies in the maintenance of wrath and revenge within ones own self over former trespasses against us or those going forward. There is freedom from falsehoods, such as the falsehood that blood is thicker than water, or family is greater than truth. There is freedom in the peace of these things, and freedom in gratitude. There is freedom in the softening of ones heart, and the lightening of ones spirit and mind. There is freedom in knowing that God rules the eternities, and that even in death, we are in his hands. There is freedom in faith. And one is made free in ones nearness to him, and in the increase of confidence in his power to direct and save. Not that life is all sunshine and rainbows. But that there is hope.

    Thru our founding Fathers, God has made us free from the King, his advisors and the Church of England. And he has made Americans equally free for all practical purpose. Including free to worship him or not according to the dictates of our own consciences and judgments. And all this has made America a powerful nation, and a force for good on the earth greater than our trespasses.
     
  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You're just saying that YOU are right and TEACHERS are wrong.

    There is no logical reason that I should accept that.

    In fact, when FL and other states have parents removing books from libraries and directing teachers that they damn well better ****, it means that education becomes worse. You end up with graduates who haven't been faced with the issues that have been removed.

    One solid way to teach the strength and benefits of our economic system is to require high school kids to defend communism. The result is that they learn that it can not be defended. Plus, they end up knowing why.

    This is a general principle. Blocking access to ideas is a false approach.
     
  24. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's certainly one way of looking at it, but I submit that American freedom, rights, and equality, are based on much more than "the self evident truth that there is one God from whom we all spring". You quoted the DOI as proof of this and the man who drafted it had this to say about the Declaration and the lofty ideas expressed therein:

    This was the object of the Declaration of Independence. Not to find out new principles, or new arguments, never before thought of, not merely to say things which had never been said before, but to place before mankind the common sense of the subject, in terms so plain and firm as to command their assent, and to justify ourselves in the independent stand we are compelled to take. Neither aiming at originality of principle or sentiment, not yet copied from any particular and previous writing, it was intended to be an expression of the American mind, and to give to that expression the proper tone and spirit called for by the occasion. All its authority rests on the harmonizing sentiments of the day, whether expressed in conversation, letters, printed essays, or in the elementary books of public right, as Aristotle, Cicero, Locke, Sidney, etc….

    As we can see here, American freedom, rights, and equality, are based on many things - Jefferson mentions the Ancient Greeks and Romans, along with the "radical" Whigs John Locke and Algernon Sydney from the period surrounding the Glorious Revolution in late 18th Century England. Together, all these "sentiments", along with those expressed by Jesus and contained within Judeo-Christian religion, law and tradition, were "harmonized" into what became the American Enlightenment, where religion and reason were allowed to coexist alongside one another.

    Another example of this co-existence is found in the history of the evolution of rights doctrines in the West, which began with the study of the Corpus Juris Civilis (aka Justinian's Code) and Gratian's Concordia discordantium canonum (aka, Decretum) at the University of Bologna in the early second millennium AD. Here again, we find the confluence of the Greco-Roman and Judeo-Christian, and the synthesis of the two would further evolve during the Middle Ages (and Renaissance) and further more during the Age of Enlightenment.

    Ultimately, what we find, is that American freedom, rights, and equality are the product of an evolutionary process that spans thousands of years, and we have Christians and non-Christians to thank for their acquisition and preservation.

    To say Christians should have no say in anything in particular or everything in general is tyranny, and of course you are right - there is more to our freedom than our secular institutions and laws. We are not cogs in some machine - we are human beings, or if you prefer, God's Children.

    And for those who do not believe in God?

    Let's not forget that Jesus was a humanist. When he overthrew the Ancient assumptions and acceptance of natural inequality he liberated everyone, not just the faithful. It's that kind of thing that is relevant to everyone's life and our understanding of who we are as a people who profess the lofty ideals expressed in the Preamble of our Declaration of Independence.
     
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  25. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    You promised to answer my question if I explained Matthew 7, and I did.

    Have you accepted Jesus as your lord and savior and been baptized?

    Honor your promise.
     

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