Clear party divide re: Opening the economy

I totally agree. I live 25 miles south of Atlanta, we have had probably a bit more than 100 cases. But in all of them it involved people who work and commute back and forth to Atlanta for various reasons. So they brought the infection south with them.

I would say my county isn't ready yet to open up. But give it a week or two, perhaps them. The rural counties have had relative few cases and deaths. Most of the cases and deaths are in and around the bigger cities. Where people live on top of each other, the busy airport, public transportation etc makes the virus much easier to spread.

 

Your analysis is wrong. Everyone wants the economy to re-open. The balancing act between lives and money is difficult.
Those who typically value money ahead of lives tend to be Trump supporters.

 

And nary a citation to prove your point.....I rest my case.

 

Easy. Here's one of Reststate's latest articles:
And we are all going along with it because we are either too scared to see this for what it is or we’re too cowardly to say enough is enough and f*** these people and their face masks and ‘social distancing.’
https://www.redstate.com/streiff/2020/04/18/821187/

The comments section is particularly interesting.

A lot of the Right STILL aren't taking this seriously. You see it here too. That's not happening on the Left. The Right, probably for religious reasons, has always had a problem with science.

 

All politics aside, the real issue about re-opening the economy resides in the tests; either for the Covid 19 or for anti-bodies. Until we know who is already infected and IF they have immunity, we cannot do chit.

That has little to do with it being a right or left thing.

 

The virus gives progressives the opportunity to unleash their inner fascist. Northam wants to use it as an opportunity to infringe on 2nd Amendment Rights. Some have already shut down drive-in churches, locked up law abiding citizens and released murderers and rapists to save them from the virus.

Whitmer is on a power grab, banning the sale of seeds for gardeners and the use of power boats for fishing. She justified the former by saying, "If it were snowing, you couldn't plant seeds." She basically justified gas chambers since her victims would choke anyway if they were caught in a forest fire.

They will never let a good virus go to waste. This should be the last time we let a virus become an excuse for fascists to grab power.

 

Generally speaking, smalls business on a greater margin tend to identify as republican. Also, people whom identify more with republicans are less likely to give up freedoms for a little security while democrats have no reservations to give up a few freedoms for a little security.

 

That is odd, because after 9/11, Republicans were willing to give up a lot of freedoms in exchange for very little, if any security gained. We waged decade long wars and spent trillions to avenge 3,500 lives. Now, we are already at +10-times the death toll, yet, Republicans want to go on with life usual. Why? Because they assume the virus doesn't affect them, but only the others (insert liberals in big cities, for example). That's a dangerous assumption.

 

You're right, it does have little to do with right or left, however what is the most acceptable, 100,000 deaths from this virus or half a billion thrust into extreme poverty?

 

Your are correct that people on both side of the isle during 9/11 were willing to abdicate freedoms as the Patriot act was a travesty that should have NEVER and the endless wars were slap in the face.

I think most people realize that everyone is susceptible to the virus, however at what point to you look at the mortality rate and vet at what risk are you willing to destroy hundreds of millions of lives?

I am seeing so many people who businesses will never recover and the longer we shut down the economy, the more families will be destroyed. What is that sweet spot people are willing to give up?

 

I find trump apologists frequently rail against policy that is in their best interest. It's curious.

 

I don't value money ahead of lives. Let's be as blunt and as 'cruel' as you think I am: Their deaths are sadly, inevitable. That's not me, that's their models. We're not saving lives with this stuff, the numbers show it and it's played out that way.

If we take sentimentality out of it, and rationalize there's going to be a future for a LARGE number of us, we need to prioritize that future. Our sentimentality is making us bleed out financially and in terms of the disease. It's not being heartless, it's being survivalist which from the days of tribalism, has sustained the human race.

Once we accept loss, we can make good decisions. Trying to fight loss, has generated bad results including draconian ineffective policies.

 

Your false claims reflect only on you. @Louisiana75 asked a perfectly good question and you crapped all over it.

There are several things driving this:

1. The Models that justified the risk were clearly overstating the risk.
2. There are Gov with arbitrary restrictions, and that destroys consensus.
3. The $600 additional on unemployment checks for those idled by government order are not reaching people and bills are coming due.
4. Some have received the stimulus checks, but many have not.
5. Pelosi is refusing to added the needed addtional funding to the Paycheck Protection Act and folks that were previously employed are being furloughed, and that combed with 3. is making it more difficult to stay off work.

It looked to me like several States will hit the Stage 1 Federal Standards after May 18.

We also need to tailor our distancing rules to reflect the latest information, for example, how much safer outdoors is than indoors.

IT’S PRETTY SAFE TO BE OUTDOORS: From an interview with an Israeli epidemiologist on Covid-19:

Q. What if someone is out jogging and they’re breathing really hard and they breathe on you? They don’t cough or sneeze, they just exhale in your direction? Is that cause for concern?

A. We usually say you are in real danger if you spend 10 minutes with a person at a distance of less than two meters. So hopefully this guy is running fast enough so that you are not near him for 10 minutes.

That does not mean it is impossible to get infected from his breath. It is possible, but you’d have to be completely unlucky. In a park, or in the open air, the virus would be more diluted. If someone spits out of doors, however, they could infect people.

 

I know it's difficult for you, but what do you think happens if we restart the economy and go back to work and then a whole new wave of infections take place? Can't you see that you would still get the same, or worse, result than just waiting for the science to catch up? Your 100k deaths could very easily turn into 500K or a million!

YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE IS NOT IMMUNE!

 

So I've talked with many of the doctors I work with (primarily oncology). Some are merely following SOP for the COVID event, however, many, are stating EXACTLY what this respiratory doctor is stating.

My hospital is no where near capacity and we have ample respirators. The 2018 influenza A & B outbreak which killed 80,000 people in the US but a substantially larger stress on our hospital than this "pandemic. Also, every patient that shows COVID symptoms is labels as a COVID patient and COVID protocol is initiated.

 

Okay, I didn't watch the whole video, I got about 3 minutes in and got the gist of it which is basically him stating that its all fake...and all this from a a YouTube video from an anonymous nurse from god knows where.

All I care about are FACTS, and granted, the whole issue of how those facts are disseminated is truly lacking from our government officials, but resorting to anecdotal opinions and theories is only muddying the waters further.

So what exactly is the point of you posting this?

 

The vid and the anonymous nurse are worse than useless.

The fact remains that opening the economy all once is preposterous.

 

It's like the City Folks figure if they have to suffer that the suburban and rural have to also, even though their greater natural spacing is automatic distancing.

​

 

How is it anecdotal when my hospital (largest hospital in my state FYI) and many major medical institutions across the nation are experiencing the same thing as this respiratory doctor is seeing. Again, 2018 influenza outbreak was 10x worse than what we are seeing today. And keep in mind, you could have influenza B, but since you are showing similar signs to COVID, you're listed as a COVID intake.

Again, how is it anecdotal?

 

And to add, there is a financial benefit to the hospitals for intaking a patient as a suspected COVID-19 patients as it's part of the stimulus. Merely have to show signs to be a COVID patient.

 

an·ec·do·tal
/ˌanəkˈdōdl/
Learn to pronounce

adjective

1. (of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.

The video above is anecdotal. I have no idea who he is, where he is, or what his authority level is to be able to speak about it. The rest of your post is irrelevant to the very validity of the video you posted.

So why do you trust this video? Because it conforms to your own biases and anecdotal experience too? That maybe evidence for you, but not me, especially since you really haven't completely been forthcoming as to what you are implying here, which to me sounds like just another conspiracy theory to be added to the dozens already flying around on the net. What do you think is going on here?

 

We agreed to this based on projections that turned out to be much worse than the actual experience, and to flatten the curve, in order to make sure our health treatment system wasn't overwhelmed. We aren't moving the goal posts.

TEXAS: Harris County Democratic Judge Lina Hidalgo: I Decree That All Subjects Wear Masks.

HPD Union: GET STUFFED! “The Houston Police Officers Union has decided to use discretion by not enforcing an illegal decree.”

Discretion is the better part of valor, you know.

​

Here’s another case of a government official using the Wuhan coronavirus as an excuse to exceed their legal authority. Harris County Democratic Commissioners Court Judge Lina Hidalgo decreed that not only must every resident of the county wear a mask, but that they’d be subject to to 180 days in jail or a $1,000 fine for disobeying:

Harris County Judge Lina Hidalgo on Wednesday ordered residents to cover their faces in public starting next week, the latest effort by local governments to slow the spread of the novel coronavirus.

The new rules, which require residents 10 and older to cover their nose and mouth when outside the home, take effect Monday and last 30 days. Acceptable garments include a homemade mask, scarf, bandana or handkerchief. Medical masks or N-95 respirators are not recommended as they are most needed by first responders and health workers.

Under the order, the county’s 4.7 million residents must cover their faces at all times except when exercising, eating or drinking; the exemptions also include when individuals are alone in a separate single space, at home with roommates or family, or when wearing a mask poses a greater risk to security, mental or physical health. Violating the mask rules is punishable by a fine of up to $1,000, though Hidalgo urged police to use discretion.
​

The Houston Police Officers Union has decided to use discretion by not enforcing an illegal decree:

Our officers work every single day to bridge the gap with our community and earn their trust, we will not stand idly by and allow Hidalgo to tear that bridge down, with her horrific leadership and echo chamber decision making.​

Hidalgo’s attempt to release criminals into the public using coronavirus as an excuse was not popular with Houston police officers. They’re seeking a ruling from Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton on whether Hidalgo’s decree is legal under Texas law, and note that police response is already way to thin with crime up in the city.

 

Ok....how does this relate to my post?

 

You're trying to move the goalposts. The reason for ceasing economic activity was to make sure our healthcare system wasn't overwhelmed. Now there are voices, mainly on the Left, that are claiming we can't reopen until new metrics are met, which is horseshit. You for example claimed that we can't reopen until everyone can be tested in two different manners. Others claim we can't unless we have a vaccine, others, until we have more effective treatments. Nonsense. We aren't moving the goalposts. The metric is healthcare capacity.

Now those that feel differently, can do differently, and with the extra $600 week in unemployment for both contractors and employees, they can probably make do, at home, if that's their choice.

And of course this idiot judge is another great one for thinking she can arbitrarily declare law and the police department quite correctly told her to get stuffed. She has no more authority to arbitrarily declare that, than folks like you have the authority to keep folks under house arrest until whatever you declare must be done is completed.

 

As far as your post on the judge thing, I don't care. My first reaction seemed like she was writing legislation rather than interpreting it, but whatever.

As for myself, I already check off two of those high risk categories for Covid19, so I'm speaking for myself, and I am quite sure millions of others. I want to get back to work, but sacrificing my life isn't too appealing either.....that's the decision I am faced with while the government struggles to get a coherent message to the public and stumbles on the very crisis of a lack of resources.

If you think just flipping the economy back on and everything will be a-okay, then go ahead, you go first, and we'll see what happens in 60-90 days, okay?