Climate Change 2022: Mitigation of Climate Change

I still don't trust EVs.

 

When you think about pig power you also have no waste. All organic material can go back into the soil. You can also think about people power.

 

I think we will see the two car families hiving one of each until change over

 

used gas powered only and not that Triton 3 valve piece of crap.

not a chance in hell would I ever buy an electric car made by Ford.

Ford is notorious for making sure you have to take their vehicles to the dealership to get them fixed. At least four certain components.

Vehicle that they don't have to have an OBD2 port on by federal mandate no way in hell I'd ever buy that from them.

I won't buy a new car from the at all. If I ever do it will be a chassis and a shell I don't want any of their crap in it. I can probably get an interior and creature comforts and stalled aftermarket cheaper anyway.

If I needed 12 volt energy I can buy a portable battery power supply or a generator for a cheaper.

It doesn't do anything for me to be able to plug an angle grinder into an expensive pickup truck.

I'm not sure about that one. It seems like it's an extraordinarily niche market these are the vehicles that start at 67 Grand. I think there's only going to be a very small number of people that spend that kind of money on an electric pickup truck.

it's not really that new. Most of this tech has been around for at least a century. The part that's relatively new and I'd say 1990s is computer control, and the lithium-ion battery that was prototyped in 85.

But I've had cell phones that have had lithium ion batteries for at least 10 years.

It's expensive because they have to make them luxury cars. For so long the electric car has been largely just a novelty. They were quite expensive and quite miserable. So nobody would buy one Elon musk is responsible for bringing them into cultural prominence. And the only reason his are where they are is because they're luxury.

Or they're passed off as luxury they're not really the bill the quality is quite pathetic compared to real luxury cars but we live in the day and age where if you say something's luxury people will believe it.

and they should be far cheaper.

that's not entirely true electric cars do have water pumps they do need coolant if you're going to have a battery that's any kind of capable. Heat is the enemy of a battery especially lithium-ion battery so water cooling is essential. Also mini electric vehicles have a car battery in them like any other car they do this to operate accessories I'm not sure if they have an alternator I would think they'd have to for that battery not to just go dead in a few hours

But I really think electric cars are just a gimmick to try and help auto manufacturers and make money.

They can trick suckers into paying a premium for much less of a machine that's far less complicated to build and have an income on that vehicle for its entire existence.

Right now I see it as a scam to try and eliminate the used car market or to make money off of used car buyers, and to charge the exorbitant prices to the people willing to pay them.

I don't think they're ever going to compete for several reasons.

That huge amount of stuff under the hood of any given conventional vehicle was all put there at a necessity. It's not there just because people want to show off how much of they are by having a gasoline engine. It's all there because the vehicle is its own power plant it makes its own energy by burning an abundant commodity called fuel. Electric cars don't do this the energy produced from the for them is produced in a power plant that burns coal or natural gas.

Electric cars dating all the way back to the 19th century when they were invented have always been simpler. There is a reason engineers went through the trouble of the engineering all the complexity and inside of a gas-powered car. So that it wasn't dependent on the electricity that was the whole point.

I don't think electric cars will ever really compete with gasoline powered cars because of this. Gasoline is abundant petrochemical is abundant electric energy is not. Most power plants we have operate above 100% output.

As more and more people by electric cars or in Morse people are going to demand fast charging this is not feasible. Not without destroying vast amounts of environment.

So just four fast chargers use the same amount of energy as 230 homes. California was talking about installing 1.5 million fast chargers and in order to supply these fast chargers they would have to make the same amount of energy to supply 86 million homes. Currently they have difficulty supplying power to 14 million homes. And they think they can increase that on a magnitude of six meaning six times as much without clear cutting forests to build whatever kind of power plant you can imagine. Keep in mind you have to destroy vastly more environment to build solar power plants.

When you lift up that hood and you see all that complexity in that vehicle and do you think there is no reason for that to be there you're not thinking. It wouldn't have put it there if there was no need for it engineers don't engineer a complexity just for giggles.

 

It would still go back into the soil it would just need to go first to a sealed “pond” while the bacteria started the breakdown. One major advantage would be that it would massively reduce the smell generated by the large pig producers, capture the methane they are already producing as well as generating natural gas. I personally, do not see it as viable for the car industry but I do see it as viable for any power generators that currently use LNG. Once upon a time, before solar panels became cheaper, a lot of “off grid”/preppers were putting out plans as to how to capture methane from sewerage with simple systems incorporating old inner tube tyres etc. I doubt they were hugely successful

 

yeah I know there is no need for onboard diagnostics meaning you are bound to the dealership.

Quick quick let me pay 45,000 for something just so I can pay thousands of dollars every time I need it repaired please do that to me.

OBD stands for onboard diagnostics if you don't have access to that you are a slave to the dealership if you want to do that with your money if that makes you happy then go for it I'm not playing that game.

Ford could program the car just to break down so you have to go pay the money and they can charge you $4,500 to fix it and you can't do anything about it except for a throw away the car.

I'm not interested in being that kind of a stooge.

yeah and they won't break down ever I'm sure.

When auto manufacturers purposefully put things into the car so that you have to go to the dealership in order for the vehicle to run they're going to do that with electric cars too they're going to do it more because you don't have any options cuz you don't have an OBD2 port to figure out what the problem is.

There are no problems with my math the problem is with your acceptance of reality.

If these vehicles were so cost effective that's what everyone would already be driving.

They are on the absolute Fringe of luxury because they are not cost-effective.

They are not cleaning quiet it's just the dirty noisy part it's kept away from you and it's near the peasants who don't have the privilege to live next to you.

This is just a way to make people in poverty suffer more for your comfort.

they always will unless the demand for electric cars disappears.

They will probably have to be much cheaper to become a significant portion of the automotive industry and by witch I mean a third the cost. They will always be more limited than a gas powered car.

That'll always be the case if demand for fuel decreased which will absolutely happen if electric cars take off it'll be more cost effective to buy and fuel them.

One of two things will happen. They'll stay a rich man's toy or they'll flop. I think the best thing for them is to stay exclusive is super car for the terminally green.

 

I don't trust car manufacturers. Did you ever hear about the Ford pinto?

It had a problem that if it got a collision the fuel lines would tear and leak gasoline. This resulted in a few teenagers burning to death in the pinto.

It turns out for new about it and went ahead with manufacturing because changing the car to where it didn't do that would cost more than paying out settlements. They essentially said we don't care if our product kills you it's cheaper just to buy you off than it is to make the repair.

Of course after some Court cases they were fined six times the cost that it would be to make the repair just to teach them a lesson.

But if they're willing to produce a car that could kill kids and not give a **** because money they're willing to **** people over.

And that isn't Ford only that's Jaguar that's GM that's Mercedes that's BMW that's all of them.

It's not so much that I don't trust the machine that's that I don't trust the people making them they've proven themselves untrustworthy.

 

If the change occurs. I'm not so sure it's even possible.

 

I used to make parts for General Motors. While working in the business I saw quality control become the major issue.

 

Is it because of the possibility of running out of battery?

 

Yes, complexity isn't added for the fun of it.

But, all gas engines have WAY more complexity.

The bottom line is that gas engines require a LOT of care and feeding. So, you get the complexity. You have pistons and valves, transmission, oil system, ignition system, starter motor, cooling system, differential, carbonator, fuel system, etc., etc.

EVs don't need ANY of that. So, the complexity is FAR less.

EVs have a motor or two with ONE moving part and none of that other stuff. To go, you add some electricity.

 

That shouldn't be the reason that he doesn't trust them he shouldn't trust them because they're made by car manufacturers. Sleazy dishonest car manufacturers.

So with my truck that runs on gasoline the only time I've ever had to take it to the dealership is for a computer error. And they're getting at least $1,500 out of me anytime I bring it there for a computer issue.

Electric vehicles have computers. And it will be the same thing except for the damn thing won't move out of your driveway.

 

General motors used to be top notch I would have been a lifelong GM owner if I hadn't seen what happened with their quality in the 2000s I don't know if that's when you were there.

But yeah their quality went right down the crapper.

No I would trust a Korean vehicle over theirs it's mostly the same thing except for cheaper.

 

outside of German cars this is correct so it's only as complex as it needs to be

well yeah they produce their own power they don't need to be plugged into anything all they need is fuel.

You have a power plant under the hood an electric car the power plant is whatever is connected to the mains.

and we went with that configuration starting essentially a 1901 because it was Superior. From what I can tell it still is.

A $500 beat up Hyundai is more useful than an electric car if it runs.

An electric car is a fashion statement for wealthy people that have more money than sense.

yeah and it's all necessary to make me gasoline powered vehicle Superior to an electric one.

That's why they replaced electric vehicles over a century ago.

and yet they're way overpriced you don't have to keep making the points that buying one is just getting ripped off I believe that before you started making that point.

Also it's less complex because it is less versatile it requires a power plant. My vehicle runs on gasoline and has its own power plant. And it cost a fraction of the price.

Yeah I understand they're charging more money for something far less complex that's why it's a ripoff.

When you can buy one new for $5,000 I'll consider it.

But when I can get something that's Superior for much less money smart money is on the superior.

 

If you have an EV, you don't need that kind of equipment. So, your issues with service policy just go away!

But, I don't believe that service policy has anything to do with the massive move that every automaker is making toward electric vehicles.

And, the demand is rapidly increasing. Ford has had to stop taking pre-orders for the EV version of the F-150, and has promised customers that they will significantly increase manufacturing capacity.

BTW, today more than 2/3 of our total oil consumption goes to transportation.

We could fix our balance of trade in oil by significantly reducing our dependence on oil based transportation solutions.

Amazon is going electric. WA and some other states are suing the federal government over the post office decision to buy gas delivery vehicles. Demand is increasing significantly, and EVERY auto manufacturer knows that and is working hard to go electric.

Porsche can't afford to have slow cars when their reputation is performance!

 

Tesla does software updates to its cars through broadcasts directly to the car.

So, yes. You don't have to take your car in for that.

 

Electricity and gas are both fuels. You can't say one is fuel and the other isn't.

?? Yes, you can buy a beat up Hyundai if you want to.

Technology changes. Lots of things were done differently a century ago - and for sound reasons of the time.

Once again, electricity and gas are both fuels.

I agree that you can buy a gas car for less money today.

However, the issue changes even now when considering the cost of fuel and maintenance over the life of the car.

As prices come down, that equation will improve in favor of EVs.

I think there will be gas cars around for several more decades.

 

The REAL upcoming problem will be if they ever take the speed limit off the electric disability scooters



At the moment this is probably your biggest EV market and a hugely successful one showing that many are happy with small transportable vehicles with limited mileage. My father was a complete menace in one zooming down the centre aisle of shopping centres at full speed and when we tried to stop him he pointed to the one inch long badge that said “poor vision” and replied that everyone else had warning he was coming

 

yeah because car manufacturers don't want money.

I have a bridge for sale if you're interested in buying it.

no I don't think that it's the main purpose either I think it's to make a cheaper lesser product and charge more for it.

It is to trick gullible people out of more money. That's the whole reason car manufacturers exist that's the primary source of business.

I'm betting that has more to do with a lithium shortages from battery suppliers than it does with not wanting to sell much less of a car to somebody for more money.

You did make the point that there is far less complexity over and over again.

Good. I hope more gullible people buy more electric cars so I can pay less at the pump.

It's really nice when other people's poor decisions benefit me.

right so the dependence on coal and natural gas will increase cuz you got to produce electricity for electric cars to run on and if you do that hey gasoline becomes cheaper so please buy an electric car.

good decreased demand on if you won't make it cheaper for me thank you Amazon.

I would say if they lose not sure that they will because the US government made a good decision for once and if they lose payout the lawsuit it's cheaper than maintaining a motor pool of crappy electric cars. All of the downtime you need to charge them and so forth

Owning a Porsche is like having a black hole that you have to throw money in. They are some of the most finicky unpleasant machines that I've ever had the displeasure of encountering.

I would say you must have a Porsche lease an electric one but I'm not sure they couldn't **** that up.

The same goes for BMW Jaguar Mercedes Audi and Volkswagen.

My advice as a former mechanic and it's never buying any of those cars especially used. If you buy the new you're going to get raped on resale because they are a nightmare to keep running.

Germans do not engineer functional usable machines anymore.

 

no electricity is absolutely not fuel I'm fuel in the main electricity it's typically cold or natural gas. Electricity is a product of burning fuel.

versus getting scammed into buying a far simpler machine for a lot more money that isn't as versatile I would always go with the smarter option.

this isn't technology it is techno regressive. Electric cars predated vehicles with an internal combustion engine they fell out of favor when the ladder surpass them in 1901 you are talking about 19th century technology with the few computer governs in it to muck it up and make you a slave to the dealership/stealership.

not much with regard to electric vehicles. Battery technology has slightly improved and computer controls have improved greatly but that is largely used to keep you in the customer loop.

once again no they are not electricity is not fuel it's not even matter it's missing a key component to being fuel it is produced by burning fuel the only real way you can produce it

and it's Superior one that's 12 years old is superior to a brand new electric car.

that's only assuming that the cost of electricity stays the same if demand increases and the supply is based on what we produce now it will skyrocket and charging an electric car might become cost prohibitive.

You are operating under the assumption that things will not change in this regard.

And also an electric car is a machine and it will need maintenance and because they eliminated you from the ability to know the maintenance they can charge you whatever they want and you will have to pay or you'll have to buy a new car.

That's how Apple works do you have a cult that worship their substandard devices too they have tricked people into believing that their crap is superior I don't know why people are just gullible but I don't know why people join Scientology either.

I guess what they say one is born every minute is accurate.

if prices of electric vehicles comes down enough to convince 5 to 10% of people in the car market to buy one the cost of electricity will go up.

You would still have to produce energy for these vehicles to use. That requires more power plants more power lines and more cost to the consumer.

Again it's very myopic to think that things won't change.

I think they are going to remain a dominant component of the car market I don't think electric cars are going anywhere because again they've been around since 1840 they will just remain an alternative until we figure out how to harness nuclear fusion. If we can create a fusion reactor to make electricity the cost of electricity will just be paying the people to maintain the machinery.

But until that happens they are going to be a novelty or they will flop tremendously.

Electricity is it magical pixie dust that just appears out of the socket in your wall you don't know anything about producing it because you have the privilege the power plants are near you so you don't have to smell the fumes or hear the noise it's even no idea how it's made.

If we get to where we need to produce six or seven times the amount of energy we do just to support 10% of automobiles being electric you will get a full view of How It's produced and I don't think you're going to like it.

 

yeah I remember back when I was in the Apple cult. They offered free software updates that would destroy your device so you have to buy a new one what makes you think they won't do that with cars think absolutely will they want you to buy more.

Smart people don't update older electronics.

 

Amen! lol.

I have a street legal, licensed and insured vehicle that looks close to a golf cart that I use for runs to town at a vacation home. It doesn't go that fast, but stores are about .5 miles, so bfd! It has a flat bed that switches to rear view seating, but as a flat bed it's great for taking construction/maintenance material from the hardware store directly to the work site!

There are similar vehicles that are WAY faster and street legal. It's a little shocking!

 

I think you are trying hard to dodge the issues.

Price is set by demand. All auto manufacturers are dedicated to maximizing net profit. There isn't some OTHER economic system especially for EVs.

EV maintenance is WAY lower, because there are so few moving parts and systems.

In general, acceleration is better with EVs.

 

Tesla has been doing that for years.

And, it's not like what Apple was faced with doing. The Apple problem is substantially harder. The Windows problem is even harder than that, as Windows is more open to 3rd party software and Windows is committed to continuing to run old software.

Tesla owns all the software, and there are very few configuration differences since there are only a few car models, etc. That's a far easier situation.

 

I'm not sure you even comprehend my issue.

Incorrect it's also set by supply.

This is a bizarre and rather brainless statement by you.

I'm not suggesting anything of the sort.

So once again you are arguing against strawmen. I might nick name you strawman Slayer.

Yeah, and the manufacturer is perfectly okay with losing that cash cow.

With an EV that you can't access they can create whatever maintenance schedule they want and because they own the software on your vehicle they can program it to go into limp mode.

Manufacturers have been doing this already for years to bilk money out of consumers. What makes you think they'll magically stop now that you have absolutely zero access to your vehicle's systems?

I'm sorry they sold you on that line.

A car with moving parts that I can access I can repair, I can determine if it needs repair. With an electronic system you don't own you have no way of knowing if it needs a repeat or if somebody is just pushing a give me money button to extort use of your car for ransom.

La-di-da?