Climate Frauds Debunked; 112° in the Desert? (the Horror) and The Vanishing Islands That Didn't

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by JBG, Jul 1, 2024.

  1. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Beside the point. All I needed to show (and to refute you) was that cooling had mainstream support. Duration is itrelevant.
     
  2. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That makes no sense. You claim was that cooling had mainstream support. All you showed was that it was occasionally an outlier position, which nobody every denied. That is, your claim was debunked.

    Anways, a fine backpedal on your part. And since you're no longer claiming cooling was the mainstream position, my mission is accomplished.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2024
  3. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Check your earlier post. Your claim was refuted.
     
  4. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

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    Why do you persist in making false claims since YOU have been shown many published papers showing cooling predictions, you were shown this just days ago:


    According to Stewart and Glantz (1985), in the early 1970s it was the “prevailing view” among scientists that the Earth was headed into another ice age. It wasn’t until the late ’70s that scientists changed their minds and the “prevailing view” began shifting to warming. This is in direct contradiction to the claims of PCF08, who allege warming was the prevailing view among scientists in the 1960s and early 1970s too. Furthermore, as recently as 1985, it was still acknowledged that “the causes of global climate change remain in dispute.”

    Stewart and Glantz, 1985

    [​IMG]

    According to scientists reporting to the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (1974), 22 of 27 forecasting methods predicted a cooling trend for the next 25 years, and “meteorological experts” were thinking an 1800s climate was around the corner, with the concomitant return to monsoon failures, shorter growing seasons, and “violent weather”.

    U.S. Central Intelligence Agency,1974

    [​IMG]


    LINK
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2024
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  5. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    And there's this.
    1977 Discussion Of Global Cooling And Man’s Influence On Climate
    Posted on February 10, 2022 by Tony Heller
    “There Is some evidence that the world is headed Into another deep Ice age, possibly like the one which produced the extensive glaciers of 18,000 yearn ago. “There’s disagreement over our position today,” Lamb said In an Interview following his lecture. “The cooling we see could be related to previous episodes,” meaning those who predict another great ice age are correct. On the other hand, Lamb said, man’s Influence — which has already changed the climates of our cities — could overcome the cooling”

    “There’s almost no evidence that man’s efforts have had much effect up to now.”

    [​IMG]

    Bangor Daily News – Google News Archive Search
     
  6. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    And this.
    NOAA 1974 – Global Cooling Causes Droughts
    Posted on March 23, 2023 by Tony Heller
    This document was deleted from the NOAA website sometime in the last two years.

    “According to British meteorologist Hubert Lamb, the average growing season in England is already two weeks shorter than it was before 1950. Since the late 1950°s, Iceland’s hay crop yield has dropped about 25 percent, while pack ice in waters around Iceland and Greenland ports is becoming the hazard to navigation it was during the 17th and 18th centuries.

    At lower latitudes, as in the Sahel, the amount of prec available during certain phases of the growing season is critical to food production. The kind of climatic variation now in progress includes changes in the tracks of precipitation-producing storms through major grain-producing regions.

    In India, for example, before the global warming trend of 1890-1940, severe drought struck about once every four years. With the warming, however, and more abundant monsoon rains, drought came only once every 18 years or so, greatly increasing India’s grain production. Some climatologists think that if the current cooling trend continues, drought will occur more frequently

    India—indeed, through much of Asia, the world’s hungriest continent.

    Archaeologists have related the decline of a number of ancient civilizations to climatic changes that brought recurrent drought to previously fertile crop land.”

    [​IMG]

    NOAA Magazine October 1974
     
  7. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    And this:
    1974 : Global Cooling And Expanding Ice Caps “threaten unending food shortage”
    Posted on October 16, 2023 by Tony Heller
    “ASIDE FROM the shifting pattern of monsoon rains and the lengthening winters in the northern hemisphere, one of the most ominous fluctuations is the drop in the mean global atmospheric temperature by 2.7 degrees since the late 1940s

    At the same time, the polar ice caps have been growing, and the climatologists think we may be moving into a period of shorter growing seasons and shrinking crop zones, particularly in Canada and the U. S.”

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    15 Oct 1974, 1 – Chicago Tribune at Newspapers.com
     
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  8. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    And this:
    “global cooling process that is causing erratic weather”
    Posted on March 8, 2024 by Tony Heller
    “Shifts In World Climate Since 1945 Help Explain Severe Food Crisis

    By PETER J. BERNSTEIN

    WASHINGTON — The devastating food shortage that has millions of the world’s poor people in its grip is directly related to what climatologists increasingly suspect is a gradual global cooling process that is causing erratic weather changes from one year to the next,”

    Oct 09, 1974 ·Page 25

    [​IMG]

    Oct 09, 1974, page 25 – The Pittsburgh Press at Newspapers.com
     
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  9. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Please see posts #129, 130, 131, 132 and 133.
     
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  10. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    One for the road:

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ah, Kukla, another founder of the deniers. More proof of how bad denier science has been.

    Remember my point. Y'all want to evade it, so I keep having to bring you back to it.

    Science overwhelmingly predicted warming in the 1970s. By the late 1970s, that consensus was almost universal. Mainstream science has gotten it right for a very long time, while the denier side has failed hard since the 1970s. Given their 40+ years record of total failure, why should anyone trust them now?

    Time for this summary, again, just to see Tommy have a screaming fit, if nothing else.

    https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/bams/89/9/2008bams2370_1.xml

    [​IMG]


    Sorry Tommy, but what "Thomas R. Stewart and Michael H. Glantz" (an economist and a social scientist) say is irrelevent, given that the facts contradict their 1985 claim.

    I've got an idea now. Someone could post a faked list of supposed "papers that predicted cooling", and I can start going through them an demonstrate that the list is an outright lie, that the papers did not predict cooling. I've done it before, I'm willing to do it again. Shall we begin?
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2024
  12. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Please see the immediately preceding post and numerous others already presented. You can huff and puff all you want but your claim is already overturned.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2024
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  13. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The above seems to be a bunch of qualitative BS. The neutral and cooling number is equal to the warming. But no quantification as to magnitude? Who cares??
     
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  14. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Schneider remained on the cooling side.

    ". . . Well credentialed scientists like Gifford Miller, Stephen Schneider, Chester Langway and James Hayes appeared in the wildly popular 1978 documentary “In search of … The Coming Ice Age”. The scientists in the documentary defended their claim the world could be on the brink of a global cooling catastrophe. Schneider suggested using nuclear reactors to melt the polar ice caps. . . ."

    Did The Guardian Just Blow Up the Exxon Knew Narrative?
    Eric Worrall
    So much for the big secret big oil conspiracy. Marathon Oil published an article in 1977 in a company periodical suggesting CO2 might cause mass starvation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2024
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  15. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If a person, can't count, they could say that. But only such people could say that, because 20 + 7 is not bigger than 44. Also note how the cooling papers are concentrated at the beginning of the 1970s. By the later 1970s, the consensus for warming was rather universal.

    We're just pointing out that a mainstray denier talking point, that "most scientists predicted cooling in the 1970s, therefore you can't trust science!" is a big ol' lie.

    And none of the deniers want to address that. They keep deflecting instead from the point they can't address.
     
  16. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have. You have anecdotes, I have data, so I win this contest running away.

    I have shown that the denier propaganda claim of a 1970s global cooling consensus is a big ol' lie. You've only provided anecdotes of a few scientist predicting cooling, which doesn't even try to address my point, much less refute it. My point stands unrefuted.

    You're flailing now. But you know what to do. Find more anecdotes to deflect with, then declare victory. What else can you do, when the hard data contradicts your claims?
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2024
  17. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Science is not based on consensus. It is based on application of the scientific method which has been used to show that the enhanced CO2 effect hypothesis is invalid.
     
  18. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    When the task was simply to demonstrate “mainstream support” what you call anecdotes are more than sufficient. They are in fact the documentary historical record.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2024
  19. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As you've never been able to show how that's the case, you're not taken seriously.

    I have, multiple times, pointed out that you reject the scientific method, as most deniers do.

    An actual theory has to be falsifiable, either by experimentation or observation.

    I've asked deniers, many times, what hard data would falsify their theory. None has ever responded.

    Needless to say, AGW theory can be falsified in many ways, because it's actual science.
     
  20. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have shown that the enhanced CO2 effect hypothesis is incorrect. More accurately Javier Vinos has done so but so have many others many of which have been posted which you have seen and ignored because faith based narratives are impervious to facts.
     
  21. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    You could start with data that show causation CO2 --> Temperature. Right now the research shows the reverse:
    Temperature --> CO2.

    Koutsoyiannis, 2024

    [​IMG]
    Causality Analysis Finds Temperature Changes Have Determined CO2 Changes Since The Phanerozoic

    By Kenneth Richard on 15. July 2024

    Popular claims that CO2 changes drive temperature changes currently or throughout the distant past “are based on imagination and climate models full of assumptions.” A comprehensive new study details a stochastic assessment determination of the sequencing of CO2 variations versus temperature variations since the 1950s, over the last 2,000 years (the Common Era), and throughout […]
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2024
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  22. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, you've just claimed that you have, while never doing so. That's why you're running from the challenge now, again. Everyone has lost track of how many times you've run.

    Don't worry. Given your history, nobody expected better of you, so you didn't disappoint anyone.
     
  23. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Tsk tsk. Ironic.
     
  24. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, it doesn't. Quite the opposite. Paleoclimate is impossible to explain with accounting for the effects of CO2.

    This isn't debatable, not by anyone who can read a graph. CO2 both lags and leads temperature. It's a forcing and a feedback. If someone can't understand such basic science and logic, they can't be taken seriously. Which kind of explains why they have to hide in a SafeSpace -- they get laughed out of the real world.
     
  25. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Since you jumped in, why don't you tell us how you've proven the CO2 hypothesis is incorrect? In your own words. Please don't deflect by citing a study that doesn't say what you claim it says, which is your usual thing.

    You can run now. Make sure you declare victory as you're retreating.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2024

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