Covid-19 vaccines safer than aspirin and Tylenol

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by CenterField, Jan 21, 2022.

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  1. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    Aspirin and Tylenol have specific uses, each one better benefits for one, and not so much for others. Since the injection seems to reduce the symptoms for those who receive it, but not much else (in a positive way) then that should be it's sole claim. But during this whole 'pandemic', it has been sold as the Mercedes Benz of 'vaccines', when it's really a Yugo....


    But they changed the definition, so it IS a vaccine! *sarcasm included*
     
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  2. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    I would say it's not even a Hugo a Yugo is a functional vehicle at least most of the time. This is a pile of parts that in no way could you assemble to make a usable vehicle. They try to change the definition definitions are dictated by common usage if you don't refer to the treatment as a vaccine you aren't contributing to the vandalization of the language.
     
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  3. The Verb

    The Verb Active Member

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    So how safe is Remdesvir anyway?
     
  4. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    In one test regarding Ebola years ago, it killed so many the Safety Board pulled it from the test.
     
  5. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You shouldn't. I had Covid before we knew what was making us all sick. In Dec of 2019 the So Cal ER's and urgent care clinics were standing room only. I fought it off without being hospitalized but it was bad. I had one of the variants about 3 months ago, it was no worse than my every springtime allergies. Anti-bodies testing proved it was Covid. Now here the kicker, I am 64 years old and have bad liver problems and stage 3 kidney failure. I had those problems in Dec of 2019. Breathing was difficult but not life threatening. I attribute that to never smoking. I still have had no vaccinations and here I am. Natural immunity is the best immunity.

    It's like playing Russian roulette taking vaccines with no long term study's for side effects. I was hospitalized after a very bad truck accident. The hospital administered a relatively new drug in large doses, being approved by the FDA it should have been safe. 5 years later the FDA issued a black box warning as it caused a lot of people to have their tendons become brittle. Mine did. What will the vaccinated do when those who took it, 5 or even 10 years from now, if some nasty side effects show up?
     
  6. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    Vaccines have zero effect on COVID, at least according to CDC.
    There was no reduction of COVID deaths rate, despite all vaccination efforts.
    Why you people are trying to mislead other honest and honorable people?
     
  7. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    That's the sort of misinformation that should be removed from threads like this.
     
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  8. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is this where you get to pull out your annual totals, devoid of context, and I get to show you that deaths as a percentage of cases
    were 32% lower in 2021 than in 2020?
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
  9. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    Care to provide some kind of supporting information to blame me for misinformation?

    Here is facts.
    According to CDC
    In the year of 2020 without vaccines there was 385,470 deaths
    In the year of 2021 where 90% of people from the risk group were vaccinated we had 405,471 deaths.
    There is absolutely zero effect of vaccination.

    Where is your proof?
     
  10. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    Yea, I know, you are using fuzzy math and logarithmic scale where it is absolutely inappropriate.

    There is no substantial difference between 2020 and 2021 in the number of cases.
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/#graph-cases-daily

    And you also have to take into account that in 2020 COVID test were available only for medical professionals.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
  11. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You don't do any math at all, let alone fuzzy math - context is not your friend, and neither are log scales it seems. Hence your refusal to understand what they're actually used for and what they depict lol.

    2020
    Cases - 20,144,068
    Deaths - 385,470 = 1.9% of cases

    2021
    Cases - 34,695,430
    Deaths - 457,401 = 1.3% = 32% lower than 2020

    Translates into about 202,000 less deaths than there would have been at the 2020 rate.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
  12. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    Your data is skewed, you do not take into account that in 2020 COVID testing was not widely available, that is why number of cases are smaller.
    The reality is that deaths number over the expected deaths in 2021 is higher then in 2020
    upload_2022-2-8_12-32-59.png
     
  13. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No it's not skewed. What's skewed is your understanding of what your circled numbers are.

    They are NOT the percentage that were covid deaths, or in fact anything specifically related to Covid. It's the percent by which total deaths from all causes in these years are over/under the average (i.e. "expected") total deaths from all causes in the previous years.

    In other words, it's an excess deaths measure.
     
  14. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL I guess you missed the part where Trump complained there was too much testing! Not to mention that it would mean many deaths may have gone uncounted in 2020. And, if you're going to be interested in context all of a sudden, how about factoring in all the lockdowns etc. which suppressed the number of cases and therefore deaths in 2020, making the numbers much better than they would have been - therefore much worse than 2021.

    As for Worldometer's cases, how on earth do you conclude their numbers show that there’s not much difference between cases in 2020 and 2021? Their figures work out to 20,727,811 and 35,538,610.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
  15. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    Yes, excess deaths is higher
    May that is due to vaccination.

    In 2020 number of cases was lower due to absence of measurements.
    If you take data closeer to the end of the year (when more tests were available) you get exactly the same result.

    Your data does not prove that vaccines provide any help.
    So that statement about 10 times less likely to die from COVID is just an outright lie and misinformation
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
  16. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Maybe their masks are blocking the view.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
  17. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's because........They failed to stop the spread like vaccines for polio, diphtheria and whooping cough. Whether the vaccines boost the immune system or harm it, only time will tell that. Or worse yet, we have large outbreaks of any number of a life threatening side effects.
     
  18. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    It is also possible that vaccines cause a harm to those people who were sick with light COVID symptoms and received vaccines at the same time.
     
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  19. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Again, you can't pick and choose! If you're going to factor in the impact of lack of "measurements" on cases you have to do it for deaths too and ALSO (as you're suddenly so interested in context) factor in the suppressive impact of lockdowns - anything less is fudging (cherry picking) to create a narrative (color me surprised).

    No idea where you think I made a statement about 10x less likely to die, especially as that's under the actual probability of 15x less likely.

    And there's no "lying" about the actual numbers:

    Deaths as a percentage of cases since the Dec 14 vaccine rollout:
    Dec to Mar - 13,341,720 cases - 238,235 deaths = 1.78%
    Mar to Jun - 4,066,742 cases - 62,754 deaths = 1.54%
    Jun to Sep - 7,982,517 cases - 72.347 deaths deaths = 0.91%
    Sep to Jan - 32,951,836 cases - 212,715 deaths = 0.65% = 63.48% lower than the first qtr.

    Hmmm, now I wonder what could be causing the death rate to fall like this.
     
  20. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    You have to compare spike 2020 with spike 2021 or take averages otherwise you are picking and choosing.
    But like I said even 30% is kind of low to claim that vaccine is 10 increase probability of not dying.
    30% can be attributed just to public awareness and better treatment in the hospital.
    30% is not even close to something that we can call a vaccine.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
  21. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Baloney! That's just you trying to find another weird methodology to evade plain facts.

    Besides, we already did averages, remember? 2020 = 1.9%. 2021 = 1%.

    And what's more, quarters ARE averages LOL. Dividing into quarters reveals the trend.

    Or, if you prefer, we can say the year started at 1.9% death rate and ended at 0.65%.

    Either of the above already encompasses spikes. Obviously. Or maybe not to you.

    Long story short, you're scraping the barrel.

    And what's with the 30% - where's that from? The difference is a decrease in the death rate of 63.48%.

    And again, it's 15X less likely, not 10X, per the CDC. [Cue conspiracy theory].
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
  22. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    The data you present is artificial.
    you rely on the number of tests comparing 2020 vs 2021
    Even though everyone knows that total number of tests in 2020 was less then in 2021.
    That is a major flow in your calculations.
    Look at here and compare how many tests were conducted in 2020 vs 2021
    https://covidtracking.com/data/national



    Yet the number of deaths even greater then in the year of 2020.

    These are simplest facts.

    The number of excessive deaths is greater as well.
    So we can conclude that effect of vaccination is closer to zero.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
  23. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    AGAIN - you cannot cherry pick when the testing issue applies LOL. If it affects cases it affects deaths too by causing them to be missed and classified as something else, meaning 2020 deaths are in all likelihood undercounted. So either do both or neither.

    AGAIN - if you want to add context then you must ALSO consider the impact on deaths in 2020 of lockdowns.

    OR you can cut to the chase and do the NORMAL thing - just look at the hospitalization and death rates at CDC, based on actual people who went to actual hospitals, which will make it clear as day that the vaccine HAS made a big difference.

    If you're going to reply with some conspiracy theory about the CDC, even though the data comes from hospitals, or if you're going to have a conspiracy theory about hospitals too, don't bother.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
  24. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    dup
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
  25. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    You are the one who is cherry picking.
    Everyone knows that testing was limited in 2020 due to testing kit shortages.

    The hard numbers are the number of deaths that is it.
    There is more deaths in 2021 then in 2020
     

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