Did Mary and Yahweh have a child out of wedlock?

Theological question:

Mary and Yahweh had a child, who became Christ. Were they married?

Does it matter? By "matter," I mean is having children out of wedlock a sin?

 

that is like asking if alcmene was married to zeus or was it just adultry?

The miracle of the mary/joseph story is perhaps that joseph went against the church and kept mary from being stoned to death for being prego without being married.

ie... basically per the story (Matt 1) if joseph was not the daddy, jesus did not have the lineage to david (of the old prophetic claims of judaism)

 

You say a "Theological question" and that depends on interpretation, and there are lots of interpreting needed for such a question.

First the Bible does not say that "Yahweh" impregnated Mary as it says the "Holy Ghost" which can have many different meanings outside of the claims of orthodox Christian doctrines.

Link = Matthew 1:18-21.

If we say the "Holy Ghost" means Yahweh or even means God then that is injecting an interpretation which is not in the text.

Also the idea of marriage is not really given in the Bible as there are no instruction nor commandments under any such heading as that of marriage.

Marriage is really just a man-made religious institution with some small basis in the scriptures, as other religions and other cultures in the world have their own kinds of marriages within their society without ever seeing the Bible.

So having a child out of wedlock can not be a sin, and the Christian Bible does not anywhere refer to it as a sin.

In fact King David had a child by purposely having intercourse with a married woman, 2 Samuel 11:3-5, and then again after he had the husband killed David had a famous son by her called Solomon, 2 Samuel 12:24.

Jesus spoke of marriage and adultery and it is not easy to decipher what Jesus is saying but it can be interpreted to mean that Jesus said adultery and marriage meant nothing because the two (2) parents are joined together permanently by God and nothing can truly separate the parents from their children, see Mark 10:2-12.

Orthodox Christian teaching claim that text means that adultery is sin and marriage is sacred and that children out of wedlock are bastards but all those interpretations are injections and projecting and they are wrong.

Having a child is what makes the two parents as married (joined), and nothing can ever separate the two parents because they are joined by God, so any other activity or circumstance can never change the original. Just because the parents get a divorce or marry some other person or adultery or have other babies then such things confuse their lives but it changes nothing from the original way we were created.

 

This is typical of all theological questions, it is meaningless drivel.

 

I would first say that for Mary to sin is impossible because she was immaculately conceived, that is, preserved from original sin at the point of conception by a special grace and intervention from God.

Secondly, child bearing outside of marriage was strongly stigmatized both then and today, but for purely practical reasons. It's an act of cruelty to intentionally raise a child without an intact family.

And finally, no there was no sin when Mary was impregnated. Jesus was conceived fully God and fully man which required a union of genes achieved by extraordinary means. There is a lot of theology on this and it really requires a lot of reading to wrap your head around it, but it boils down to this: Jesus was a fit and perfect sacrifice to reconcile the rift between God and man precisely because He WAS both God and man and could bridge the gap between the Divine and His creation.

Another way to look at this is that, understanding the unique way in which Jesus was to be conceived, would it not still be necessary that Mary be married to a man that could care for her and help to raise Jesus? Really the best consideration is that Mary was engaged to be married so there was no intent to bring a child into the world uncared for. Ergo, no sin.

 

A funny question is how did said child come to be.

A larger percent of people believe Jesus was the son of god than believe Mary was his Virgin mother.

So someone has to think the holy spirit came down and got it on with Mary.

 

Can God commit sin? Would it not be considered his divine plan?

 

So did she have sex with the Holy Ghost out of wedlock?

So was she married to the Holy Ghost and then to Joseph?

 

Good point. Theologically, no.

But Mary was human, capable of sin.

 

So then the question begs, which has a greater impact on her soul? Giving birth to the Son of God or having a child out of wedlock?

 

If God commits sin then God would die, because sin brings on death.

"the wages of sin is death" KJV, Romans 6:23a, that God "cannot lie" Titus 1:2.

Since we know that any intelligence could lie then the only reason God cannot lie is because then God would die.

His "divine plan" would be more correctly stated as His divine limitations, in that God must obey His own word and His own commandments or else God would die.

The immortality comes from having no sin.

We honestly do not know what is meant by the "Holy Ghost" or "Holy Spirit" so we could say that any woman or every woman who becomes pregnant is conceived by God or by a "Holy Ghost" because all children are a blessing from God, Psalm 82:6-7, and in the conception the egg and sperm become a life - become living, which of course fuels the debate of when does life begin? and it begins when non-life becomes living as in conception.

Therefore we really do not know how Mary got pregnant, and being out of wedlock was only a social-cultural condition so she married Joseph as the child's step father.

The scripture declare that Joseph waited until after Jesus was born before he had intercourse ("knew") his wife Mary, Matthew 1:24-25. Later Mary and Joseph had other children because Jesus had 4 brothers and at least 2 sisters, Matthew 13:55-57.

 

Actually the scriptures do not say that Joseph ever had intercourse with Mary. Protestants continue to read into the text something it doesn't say. Moreover, scripture never says that the relatives or siblings of Jesus were adelphos (from the same womb). This too Protestants just assume. This kind of abuse of scripture is really sad.

 

She didn't have a child out of wedlock. She was married to Joseph when the child was born.

 

The Author of sex and marriage is not subject to His own creation. Serious thinkers don't ask such silly questions. Your asking shows ignorance and an immature acquaintance with theology.

 

I've seen alot of Joe's posts. He's not a mocker and I think this is an honest inquiry on his part. So much speculation has been made concerning the incarnation and a lot of scandals in gnostic gospels. These ideas continue to perpetuate themselves into religious discourse, causing unbelievers to be confused about what is real and what isn't. Most of them don't share our conviction that the Bible is the inspired word of God and that gnostic gospels have been weeded out of the canon as early as 393 AD because of their untruthfulness. But some of the most sick, prurient, and outrageous accusations have couched the actual events which demonstrates Satan's goal to take anything that is holy and drag it through the mud.

The truth is, the Incarnation of Christ is, next to the Resurection, the most profoundly beautiful, novel, and holy events in the history of the universe. God became one of us! And He did it in such a miraculous and awe inspiring manner. Though people are naturally drawn to scandal, the truth is far more desirable once it's fully understood.

We are the amassadors of heaven on a mission to proclaim that truth.

 

I will take your word for it and suspend my cynicism.

Agreed, totally.

Sooooo...what is the question? God did not "have sex" with Mary. The Holy Spirit "overshadowed" her and conceived God Incarnate. Where does Joe lack in theological knowledge that needs to be elucidated? Is it what "overshadowed" means? Joe: see Genesis 1:2--it is an act of creation, but it isn't "sex" in the human "intercourse" meaning of the word.

 

I think we're in agreement here. I'm sure you're aware of how the unregenerate mind operates and gravitates toward scandal. The devil would like people to believe that nothing is pure. Every pastor is a charlitan fleecing his congregation. Christians secretly gloat about all the people God is going to send to hell. All priests like to screw alter boys. Mary Magdeline was a mistress to Jesus. And on and on. There has been a special effort throughout history as demonstrated in gnostic writings to target Jesus and his mother. It's little wonder that people get confused and become prone to assume the scandal instead of the unsullied truth.

Joe, no there was no sexual union between the Holy Spirit and Mary. Flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit. Mary was directly impregnated by a special and wonderful act of the Holy Spirit that bypassed sexual relations. In the same way that the Almighty made Adam out of the dust and Eve from a rib. He is not bound by the normal process we are in the creation of life. What happened is nothing short of a wondrous miracle.

 

I believe...

 

Amen! I believe too. Jesus is Lord!

 

Please define sin? I have asked many Christians and I always get a different answer.
The definition I have come to accept is "to deny the will of god". By that definition, then hmm, if god does it, it is his will and cannot be sin.
That is, if a god existed, lol.

 

This is just another example of the confusion, idiocy and foolishness of both the old and new testaments of the bible. If there was a god, then this kind of idiocy would not exist in a book of his word.

 

And the scriptures do NOT say that Mary had an Immaculate Conception, This is an example of the assumptive abuse of the bible by the Catholics.

 

I am not sure there is any sin, but I would say that in most cases, having children, in wedlock or out is a good thing. Having children is what humans do. Other things that humans do, might make having children, at that particular time, a bad thing. Human rules, laws and religion do NOT change that fact.

 

Serious thinkers do not waste time on religious nonsense.

 

I believe this is America and no lords or royalty allowed.