Did the lockdowns work?

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by Greenleft, Dec 7, 2022.

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  1. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    I remember the early months of 2020 with the stay at home orders and the narrative of "flattening the curve". My question is did the stay at home orders work. I am 100% supportive of vaccines, masks, limiting the number of people in a building, social distancing, no massive gatherings of people, limiting air travel etc.

    My problem was that the stay at home orders were in hindsight a little harsh. Telling families not to have get togethers, allowing people to walk in parks but not go to the grocery store (telling people to buy food online). There was also people putting off medical appointments and not being allowed to get haircuts. Working from home for desk jobs and schools was I think the right thing. I am also forgiving because at the time few people let alone governments even knew how to deal with a new virus.

    With that said however, despite how well intentioned, did the lockdowns actually work? I remember how people in my country ignored the government urgings not to travel home to extended families during Ramadan (I live in Indonesia). The huge spikes in COVID 19 cases in my country happened AFTER lockdowns were lifted and BEFORE a vaccine was widely available. The lockdown forced me to postpone mole removal surgery and I descended into a deep depression.

    Again, I understand that this was a new phenomenon and I support most of the measures taken. But did we REALLY but the elderly a few more months of life by being told not to leave our homes?
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2022
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  2. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    What was the Spanish flu and how many people died?
    The 1918 Spanish flu pandemic was the deadliest outbreak of the virus in history.

    An estimated 500 million people across the globe caught the illness, throughout the pandemic.

    While there are no official figures documenting the exact number of deaths, it is estimated that between 20 million and 50 million people were killed as a result of the deadly virus.
    https://www.the-sun.com/news/184/spanish-flu-pandemic-1918-death-toll/

    ...
    Population of world in 1927, assume 1918 was slightly less.
    https://www.the-sun.com/news/184/spanish-flu-pandemic-1918-death-toll/
    ...

    Coronavirus Cases:
    651,580,880
    view by country
    Deaths:
    6,651,983
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
    ...

    The world just past 8B people a month or so ago. 4X the population of 1918.

    It's hard to say if the lockdowns worked. Or if the Spanish flu was a worse pandemic than the Covid-19.

    But data shows, Covid did less human damage than the Spanish flu some 100 yrs earlier. With very little lock downs or distancing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2022
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  3. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    I do too. "Two weeks to flatten the curve". Yup, that turned out to be a LIE. Why anyone trusts the government anymore is beyond me... In any other instance, if someone lies to you that often, you stop trusting him/her. Yet, with government, people are lied to again and again and again yet they keep trusting government instead of their own judgement.

    The answer to that question depends on what "work" means (what the goal of implementing the orders was). In terms of "stopping the spread", "saving grandma's life", "stopping infection", "stopping hospitalization", "stopping death", etc... those orders didn't work. In terms of testing submission to irrational (and even evil) government dictates, in terms of gaining even more power/control over the general populace, those orders worked wonders.

    I am supportive of an individual's free will choice to get/do those things. I am in staunch opposition of government force to get/do those things. If one wishes to act irrationally, have at it, just don't force me to act irrationally along with you.

    They were very harsh from the get-go.

    All very harsh and completely unnecessary. Families couldn't be by the side of their loved ones as they were dying. Families were told to remain distant from each other. Relationships with family members were destroyed over COVID and these government orders. People were forced out of their jobs solely because they didn't want to get a jab. People were violently dragged out of restaurants if they didn't wish to wear a mask or show a jabby jab passport. Very young children were forced to wear a mask (and properly) on an airplane or else the whole family was kicked off of the flight.

    COVID brought out the most evil sides of people, and it is absolutely VILE and SICK what these people did to their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ in the name of COVID. Everybody who did and supported these evil actions against their fellow man needs to be held accountable for those actions. No amnesty.

    Again, I'm all for it if it is an individual choice. I do not support forcing people to work from home.

    I am not forgiving of all the evil actions that were done to people in the name of COVID, as described above.

    See my answer from above.

    Yet another result of the evils of the government mandates. Lots of people sunk into depression and even became suicidal over it. It is not good for anyone's health to be locked away in isolation.

    No we didn't.
     
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  4. Navy Corpsman

    Navy Corpsman Well-Known Member

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    "What was the Spanish flu and how many people died?"


    Another bullshit fantasy story just like CV-19 ----aka----> "Propaganda" that was used to cover the worlds governments megalomaniacs planned genocide/population control better known as the "Chemists War" that ran from July 28, 1914 – November 11, 1918.

    [​IMG]


    The Chinese megalomaniacs Great "PLANNED" Famine was a period between 1957 and 1959.

    And the "Worlds HOAX Organizations" so called Cholera out break that magically started in Indonesia in 1961 and spread to East Pakistan (now Bangladesh), by 1963 and went to India in 1964, and into the Soviet Union by 1966 and they claim is still happening today.

    Oh, and who could forget the convenient HK flu that was being used as a cover-up for the "fictitious" 58,220 U.S. military death toll numbers (U.S. death toll numbers were purposely reduced) in the Vietnam War. That's about half the population of the town I live in, and yet the war raged from 1954–75 in which the U.S. had direct 10 year intervention in.

    Back in the 90's Vietnam released its official estimate of the number of people killed during the Vietnam War. The documents revealed that over 2,000,000 civilians on both sides and some 1,100,000 North Vietnamese and Viet Cong fighters were killed from 1966-1975 and yet only 58k U.S. military personnel were claimed to have died- lol lol lol

    I'm sure the sadistic bastards running that U.S. genocidal ****-show in Asia sent out plenty of those kinds of letters below, in order to lower the horrendous death numbers, for all those who were KIA over there.

    Dear Mr. & Mrs Johnson,

    I have been asked to inform you that your son Pvt Melvin Johnson has been reported dead in Binh Thuan, South Vietnam, July 16, 1969 @ 06:23.

    Pvt Melvin Johnson had succumb to the Hong Kong flu.

    On the behalf of the Secretary of Defense, I extend to you and your family my deepest sympathy in your great loss. You should be so proud of his accomplishments, not only through his service but also through his character. Our hearts, thoughts, and prayers are with you in these difficult times.

    Please let me know if I can be of any help to you.

    "Generic Death Notification Officer"
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2022
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  5. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we're all still here
     
  6. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    Are you suggesting COVID-19 was a potential human extinction event?
     
  7. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We are getting to be a weak, frightened society. Seniors were dying, but compromising health issues were hidden. America listen to one voice because the others were drowned out.
    In California, no one was “confined to quarters”, but businesses had licenses to protect - government thug’s favorite toy!
     
  8. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No one knows for sure, and I doubt both sides can agree.

    The best way to try to answer this question is to look at countries where the lockdowns were much less stringent.
    But even that is difficult, because different populations may not be comparable. For example, different population densities, different vaccination rates (if you think that mattered), different levels of reporting.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2022
  9. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    No, but I am suggesting it could easily have killed a LOT more people than it did. It may STILL do so, it's not over yet.
     
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  10. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

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    You should move to China. I hear Winnie the Pooh has managed to bring about the zero covid policies there.
     
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  11. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Lockdowns were implemented mostly in situations where hospitals were threatened with being overrun by covid patients. Telling you to "stay home" was an act of desperation. Sometimes the politicians waited too long to implement other mitigation measures that might have avoided a lockdown.

    British Columbia in Canada never had a lockdown and only closed schools briefly in the Spring of 2020. The government early on restricted large gatherings, some travel between regions for short time, and some types of in-person businesses.
    Governments should not make restrictions mandatory and then not enforce them.
    The spike in cases happened around the world. I would be careful avoid drawing conclusions about lockdowns.
    False choice. The lockdowns kept hospitals open by not filling them with covid patients. It wasn't a choice between keeping old people alive and lockdowns—well, unless you simply refused to provide infected older people with medical care.
     
  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the Trump shutdown did not work, they only should have been implemented where hospitals were overloaded, the Trump guidelines got it wrong
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2022
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  13. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

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    The difference was not worth the cost.
     
  14. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    I'm afraid I don't understand the point. Were hospitals in a better position to deal with the massive spikes in COVID-19 AFTER the lockdowns? Also at what cost? People had to delay cancer diagnosis' and surgery. Me included!
     
  15. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

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    I think they were in a better position but it was still extremely tough on health care workers. My sisters is an OR nurse and my niece is a brand new ER nurse and they use to say the purpose of the lockdowns was to keep sanity in the hospitals. In the end they were all way overworked and stressed and that is why many health care workers left the profession but when you are dealing with things at the breaking point something like lockdowns may have made the difference.
     
  16. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    I would say 3 years in the planet is still well populated by humans, so they are clearly not extinct, even with the many thousands dropping dead from the shots. But considering the effects of the shots on the reproductive organs of both sexes, the potential still exists that the event could eventually lead to human extinction.
     
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  17. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    It was one of the things they actually told the truth about. They were trying to blunt the spike in cases so the hospitals weren't overrun with covid patients. Heart attacks or injuries in a car accident becoming a death sentence wasn't something pols were wanting to wear.
    Of course, they worked. They slowed the covid transmission rate. Whether or not they were "successful" should be considered in the context of what else they might have done, not simply on the basis of their efficacy in slowing transmission.
    Newsmax BS.
    If you and your I-wanna-do-what-I-want types go out to bars, restaurants and sporting events, increase the spread of covid, overrun our hospitals with covid cases. and then heart attacks, appendicitis and accidents become a death sentence, that's okay with you?

    I think listening to ideologues is irrational. Sometimes, government has to do unpleasant things. George Bush shut down air travel for a short time in 2001. Governors tell people to stay off the roads after a hurricane. Schools are closed when flu cases are so widespread very little learning takes place in classrooms.
    Because they couldn't see people in Intensive Care where staff are working flat out? I wonder if you would even go along with wearing a mask in that situation.
    Typically suggested, not ordered. It was a measure that slowed the transmission rate.
    So, because folks were told not to gather in large numbers for Christmas, relationships were destroyed? I dunno.
    You don't have a right to a job, nor should citizens be forced to interact with government workers (police, for example) who are more likely to spread covid, as was the case with unvaccinated folks before Omicron.
    Buy food at the store and eat at home. Buy a takeout meal. If you aren't willing to take your chances with a vaccine, what are you prepared to do to reduce the transmission rate and keep our hospitals
    So, it's your right to spread covid?
    You act like you have the right to a job.

    I wonder what we'll be like when we get over having a whole bunch of people screaming about their "rights" every time government does anything.

    I have an idea... let's end the threat of gun-grabbing, telling women what to do with their bodies, and wasting $50b+ every year on the "war on drugs."
     
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  18. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    It's not how many covid cases exist, but how much pressure there is on hospitals. Omicron brought a huge increase in the number of cases, but not in people needing the ICU.
    The reason cancer screening, diagnoses and care were delayed is precisely because of the surge in people very ill with covid needing hospital care.
     
  19. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    Then perhaps I should send a letter to my president saying something along the lines of "Mr. President, I'm reminded why I did not vote for you because you failed to enforce the lockdown you declared"
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2022
  20. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Greenleft the information as to the positive impact of lock downs and their relation to controlling the outbreak of Covid 19 is now public domain. The fact you start a thread about it means you want to resurrect the argument lockdowns were a waste of time.

    This means if someone sends you yet again the info on lockdowns to show their positive impact, you will deny this impact.

    It is yet another dead horse and another attempt to whine about lockdowns.

    The fact is you now concentrate on something that is in the past tense because you won't move on. I for one don't get dragged into whiny threads about the past with anti vaxers.

    The point is we learned from Covid 19 what to do to manage it. Whine away.

    Someone needs to lock you in a small apartment in Peking and give you something to whine at.
     
  21. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    1
    World population in 1918 about 2B ppl
    World population in 2020 about 8B.

    500M/2B ppl = 25% of the world were infected in 1918
    650M/8B = 8% of the world were infected.

    Significantly less. Was the reduction in ppl infected due to lockdowns? Perhaps.
     
  22. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Huh? I thought you lived in another country.
     
  23. Descartes

    Descartes Active Member

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  24. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    Throwing accusations instead of providing links and having a legitimate discussion earns you a place on my ignore list.

    The President of Indonesia is elected by popular vote. After getting nominated by 20% of parliament. That's our system here.
     
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  25. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    At this point the data is in, some people have followed the data, others stay with the government propaganda. Those that stay with the govt propaganda will not change their mind and its a waste of time trying to convince them they are wrong.
     
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