Does Offshore Wind Development Threaten Whales?

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by Jack Hays, Apr 5, 2024.

  1. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Lols! Okay if you say so! Pats hand sympathetically
     
  2. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Your posts were powered by your own prejudice.
     
  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Same challenge as the others - post what you THINK the “scientific method” entails.

    Sits back eating popcorn waiting for dodges and ad Homs
     
  4. Pieces of Malarkey

    Pieces of Malarkey Well-Known Member

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    The usual empirical method popular for a few hundred years or so.

    Form a hypothesis and then try to disprove it through experimentation.
     
  5. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Damn right they do! I cannot STAND this drivel claiming that every bit of bumfluff on the internet is “science” based on “wot I fink” rather than a rational criteria
     
  6. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And where have I not advocated for that?
     
  7. Pieces of Malarkey

    Pieces of Malarkey Well-Known Member

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    That chart you posted for starters.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2025
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  8. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    The basic process involves making an observation, forming a hypothesis, making a prediction, conducting an experiment and finally analyzing the results.
     
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  9. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    I fear your posts are the primary drivel sources.
     
  10. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nice quotes. I can see the historian in you. But I like to stick with science on scientific matters.

    Let me help you out with that...

    Studies have demonstrated that the construction of wind turbines (boats coming and going etc ) can be disturbing to marine wildlife. Far and above it is pile driving noise that has high impact. This can result in significant marine life avoidant behaviour.

    (Richardson et al 1995, Carstensen et al 2006, Tougaard et al 2008, Bailey et al 2010, Brandt et al 2011, Dähne et al 2013), and is highly likely to cause mortality and tissue damage in fish (Popper et al 2003, Nedwell and Howell 2004, Popper and Hastings 2009). From: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/9/3/034012

    Another summary paper if you're interested.

    https://www.researchgate.net/public...lications_of_current_knowledge_and_data_needs

    Good general paper.

    https://aquaticbiosystems.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/2046-9063-10-8

    But no studies yet demonstrate significant effects on whale health during their 'operational phase'.

    The study highlights that while construction noise had more pronounced effects, operational noise was within the range of natural background noise, and whales adapted well, showing no significant changes in presence or behavior.

    https://www.researchgate.net/public...lications_of_current_knowledge_and_data_needs


    Another one:
    https://aquaticbiosystems.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/2046-9063-10-8

    However, it's important to note that in different locations and different turbine designs ecological impact studies always need to be undertaken. Arguably, there is always some penalty to the environment and this needs to be weighed up against the benefits.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2025
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  11. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For on topic contrast, since we're talking about human impact, ship strikes and entanglement are proven whale killers:

    Ship strikes and their impact on whales
    North Atlantic Right Whale Unusual Mortality Event
    Ship Strike Risk to Large Whales in the Santa Barbara Channel
    Temporal trends in ship strikes and whale distribution
    Entanglement of North Atlantic Right Whales
    Gray Whale Entanglement in Fishing Gear
    Global Whale Entanglement Response Network
    Links

    https://iwc.int/ship-strikes
    https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/nati...-atlantic-right-whale-unusual-mortality-event
    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0177953
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0025326X17308127
    https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/nati...ntic-right-whale-entanglement-and-ship-strike
    https://repository.library.noaa.gov/view/noaa/14593
    https://iwc.int/entanglement
     
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  12. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Which is why the thread title is a question. And why the Rutgers professor’s work is interesting.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2025
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  13. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fair enough. Well between the various science studies (some a little more peer-reviewed than others) we have a few answers now.
     
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  14. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    And the Rutgers professor’s work?
     
  15. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And again I and multiple others have done so multiple times.
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I love how the SAME people complaining about wind turbines are fine with Oil and gas rigs
     
  17. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It’s all relative.
     
  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Has it been published because I cannot find it. Even though on the surface it is a correlation without a cause. As the link to NOAA pointed out there are multiple causes of whale deaths many predating erection of wind turbines
     
  19. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    The NOAA report I linked to earlier also showed the SAME data. This, in essence, is my objection to the original premise postulated by the “professor”. There was a claim of causal link without accounting for other contributing factors
     
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  20. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Look forward to publication.

    Since there are a plethora of studies demonstrating impacts on marine life by wind turbines in the construction phase, if his methodology is sound, it should be no problem for him to get this published. (I wonder what he's waiting for...)

    Incidentally, I did find this:

    The shift from using gear boxes to direct drive technology is expected to reduce the sound level by 10 dB.

    https://pubs.aip.org/asa/jasa/artic...ational-underwater-sound-from-future-offshore

    Again that's about the operational characteristics. That's probably the more important area in the long term.
     
  21. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If he can't get published and is going straight to a tabloid newspaper then there will be a good reason for this. It's not like an entry level journal has an insurmountable standard of scientific evidence needed to publish. And it's not like journals are avoiding publishing impact studies that are 'negative'. Environmentalists would welcome this!

    Until proven otherwise he is a scientific quack, flapping his wings and making noise.

    Sad that the bloggists and the misinformation propagators flock to this. I guess it makes a good headline. I suspect there's politics and oil money somewhere close nearby. :icon_shithappens:
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2025
  22. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Exactly. Same analysis as: "I took horse dewormer when I had covid and I got better = horse dewormer cured my covid."
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2025
  23. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    And yet the correlation seems clear.
     
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  24. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why the quotation marks? The gentleman’s standing is not in question.
    Apostolos Gerasoulis, a Rutgers professor emeritus of computer science.
     
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  25. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The two scientists who discovered and developed a process to create the medication known as ivermectin both received Nobel prizes because the medication basically eradicated both river fever and elephantitis. The medication has anti viral capabilities and has been shown to be effective as part of a treatment protocol in treating sick covid patients in the early stages of the viral replication progression of the disease.
     

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