Elizabeth Warren Says ‘Cost’ Of Medicare For All Could Be 2 Million Lost Jobs

I agree that it would be tough to replace such a job. That wasn't the point I was making though. We are discussing whether or not the 2 million in job losses is justified. Whether or not they can find another job is a related but secondary consideration.

The loss of the jobs - and difficulty in finding new employment - is on one side of the scale.

What is on the other side of the scale ? I have a few things to put on that side but - you can go first. What are the benefits to this decision ?

 

Your asking the wrong guy, Im not for medicare for all, just look at the VA the money thats thrown at it and it never improves. Now add millions of jobs lost and taxpayers that actually get out of bed every morning to make a living have to pay for every Drug Dealer, Felon, Thief, Junky and scumbag that does not want to works healthcare, and all illegal immigrants, plus the caveat ruin health care for the majority.

I as a taxpayer am not obligated to pay to keep Illegal democrat voters happy and healthy.

 

It doesn't matter Booker, Harris and Warren will be off the campaign trail if it goes to a trial in the Senate, attendance is mandatory.

 

Even if you are not for medicare for all - you should still be able to find something on the other side of the scale ... but OK ..

I have a few things to add... well .. one actually

3.5 Trillion dollars - 2017 - was what we paid for healthcare. The average among other first world nations - all who have good healthcare - we are middle of the pack - is roughly half that figure on a per person basis.

That's 1.75 Trillion dollars on the table - in the case where we were just to adopt - straight across the board - one of the more efficient of these other systems (and I get the oxymoron as they are all bloated inefficient bureaucratic pyramids) -

Yet - these systems do better than we do (universal healthcare for all) at half the cost. Do you not see something wrong with this picture.
It is so messed up - even prominent conservatives such as the KOCH bro's are for change in this direction. Here s an article from the "American Conservative" site Hardly a bastion of left wing thinking ..

The Conservative Case for Universal Healthcare
. https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-conservative-case-for-universal-healthcare/

Let us consider how much 3.5 Trillion dollars is ... PER YEAR. That almost the entire federal revenue for 2017 (3.6 if memory serves)

Uh yeah but but .. well well ...and then the light comes on ... Holy Carp that is a lot of money ... Why do we spend so much ? We have private - that should be more efficient and less expensive .. Right ? Correct - so whats up ?

We have both inefficient bureaucracy combined with Corporate Extortion.. Oligopolism/monopolism gone wild - surely you have heard that we pay 5-10 times for the same drug - same company - as everyone else.

Yeah but well well ... and this is only one example of thousands with respect to materials - and add to that various other anti competitive (supposed to be illegal but not enforced - practices) Private Insurance ? Legalized extortion. 3.5 Trillion dollars worth.

I call it the Oligopoly Bureaucracy Fusion Monster. Obamacare was lipstick on a pig .. no effort was made to address most of the systemic issues. Trump - hasn't suggested anything that would address these issues.

At what point does the red light start to flash - "Something is wrong here". - and that's what goes on the other side of the scale.

We could adopt .. straight across the board - line item per line item - any one of a number of these systems .. and we should be cheaper than them on a per person basis. ... Economies of Scale .. that's how it works

1.75 Trillion dollars - that is what I have on the other end of the scale. Not even the far left is suggesting something this radical I don't think .. and that is the problem .. most on the left would not address the systemic issues either .. although I wonder about Bernie .. Poco - I doubt it.

But lets do some math and weigh this against the other end of the scale. 1.7 Trillion divided by 2 Million jobs = 800,000 eight hundred thousand dollars per person.

Tell you what - we will give them other jobs at 50,000 in some make work program using a small fraction of the savings - an what about the jobs created by putting 1.7 Trillion to work in other areas..

The other side is light as a feather .. and in fact almost non existent from a broad context.

 

Are you for all illegal aliens that can make it over the border from anywhere getting free healthcare on the american workers back

 

Of course not ... everyone gets a health card .. if no card .. no service. If some emergency .. OK .. but then they get kicked out of the country. We are not going to not treat someone with a bullet hole ..

1.75 Trillion dollars ... a few illegals getting treated for bullet holes does not add much to the other side.

 

Why do you think they want open borders.

 

Doctors and hospitals bill Medicare using billing codes just like private insurance. I'm not getting why you think all of that support staff and procedures are going away and *poof* "healthcare costs under control."

 

I don’t think all of that will go away, I actually support a national program + private plans being available. To get costs under control we have to tackle pharmaceutical costs, equipment costs, wages and pensions, profit margins of healthcare and insurance organizations.
It’s not going to be a simple fix but something has to be done eventually — it will bankrupt us if we dont.

 

Yeah but none of the things you mentioned that would be going away and reducing healthcare costs would actually be going away. It's starting to sound like fantasy accounting to get your "savings."

 

What would you recommend?

 

Oh I don't think you can do much about increasing healthcare costs, at least nothing reasonable. I would be more concerned about increasing health coverage, not trying to reduce healthcare costs.

 

I guess she thinks the benefits will outweigh that. Tough sell.

 

We pay double to triple what the rest of the world pays without a higher standard of care. That’s an issue in my opinion.

 

It's an issue, sure, but you listed a couple of things that you seemed to think would go away under Medicare for All that will absolutely NOT go away. So, if you are going to make cuts in the cost of healthcare, you need to figure out what you can do away with without crashing the system. As far as I can tell, Medicare for All really only has one method for reducing healthcare costs, and I suspect it will make things much much worse, so if you have real ideas, let's hear them.

 

Using the bargaining power of being the largest healthcare customer in the world would be a start. Simple negotiation

 

Ok gift now I understand that you dont understand, you ridiculously mischaracterized health care for illegal aliens, its FULL health coverage for all ages for EVERYTHING not just a few bullet holes and its MILLIONS of illegals, it will cost us in the hundreds of billions per year alone.

 

So...squeezing Doctors and Hospitals into even lower reimbursement rates than the ones that Medicare already has?

Heh, what could go wrong?

 

I was talking about medical equipment manufacturers, pharmaceutical companies, diagnostic companies — all of which are making records profits. Just limiting the obscene profits of insurance companies like was attempted with the ACA would have an effect.

 

Why didn't it work with the ACA?

 

Everyone that is signed up gets a check back if the insurance company spent less than 80% (I believe) on healthcare related activities.

 

And that was a failure because...?

 

No it won't. Some jobs will be lost yes, but a nationalised health system doesn't remove or impinge upon private health care. It simply offers and alternative PAYER.

 

I wouldn’t really call it a failure, like most items in the ACA it didn’t go far enough.

 

Just somewhere .. you know. And when 'the rich' are disincentivised (as they surely will be), and there is no one left to pay for it all, the magical money fairies will pitch in. The main thing is that no one should ever have to be assaulted by personal responsibility.