Everyone Calls it a Baby When She's Not Having an Abortion

is it life or death as result of abortion?

no fallacy from my part, just a disconnect from reality on your part

 

OK .. so your definition of Personhood includes being born. There are some that would agree with this definition and some good arguments for this definition.

I have a couple of arguments for placing the start of Personhood earlier.

1) a living human has significant brain function .. so does a fetus in the later stages .. meeting at least the coroners definition of "living human"
2) I can not think of a characteristic that is different between the two that is large enough to qualify as a significant difference such that one should have rights and the other should not.

 

Then my response to this is simply, no human, born or not has the right to use anyone else's body for their survival without their ongoing consent.

Perhaps you have heard of the argument, "A Defense of Abortion" thought experiment? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Defense_of_Abortion It addresses this very same thing.

 

The fallacy is your assumtion that the premise "a zygote is a baby" is true.

You have not shown that the premise "a zygote is a baby" is true... therefore your argument contains an "assumed premise" which is a logical fallacy.

 

so, this zygote of which you speak is just some dead thing which needs to be extricated....................got it. You do realize it will be difficult to dig the hole you created any deeper? Call it zef, zygote, goo, cells, inconvenience, mistake or anything other than child or baby and it makes it no less DEAD

or, are you one of those fanatics who believe the after-life is the real life and you are just accelerating it for those babies and that's your purpose here on earth?

 

I'm pretty sure she's just somebody who believes a woman should have final control of what is occurring inside her own body at all times. Any other meaning is being piled on by you, which is fine, except you seem to expect that your feelings on this are the only correct ones. You want to restrict the choice of others to decide for themselves because you are so confident that you are right that there simply is no room for others to have the right to decide on their own. You pat yourself on the back and give yourself a "high five" for telling a woman that she is a slave to her body for 9 months should she get pregnant and decide she does not wish to be. You want to make it a crime for a woman to exercise control. The hubris of that is mind blowing.

 

The zygote is a single human cell. Like every other human cell, it is alive.

The question is not whether or not the zygote is alive .. but whether or not it is a living human.

And so far you have not put forth any answer to that question nevermind putting forth a convincing argument that the zygote is a living human.

 

Medically, a child is defined as a CHILD...a developing human being... "CHILD: an unborn or recently born person"

 

First off .. "medicine" is not the domain science that determine's what "a human" is and what is not. Try Biology.

You have stated that a child is a human being according to Medicine. (Go figure !) .. That a child is "developing" has nothing to do with whether or not something is a child.

You can not just state "a zygote is a child and therfore it is a human" and expect to be taken seriously.

You need to validate your premise "a zygote is a human" according to "Biology" and you have not done so.

 

sure it is the question, because when aborted it is DEAD. Dance around the term all that you want. Why not call it a zef, or goo, or a terrible mistake............dead is dead

 

high fives....high fives?

about what, not wanting babies to be killed? About stating that perhaps the baby should be considered because it's life or death for the child. It's not some game, ...............it's life or death

 

And I guess you'll try to tell me that Child Development is full of nonsense as well as the entire field of medicine.
A child is a developing human being... development which starts at conception.

Furthermore, at 8 weeks gestation, ALL body system are intact, including the central nervous system which transmits pain signals.
So, when abortions are performed after 8 weeks (as many are) the CHILD can feel the pain of his or her body being ripped apart, limb by limb...


Ultrasound of an abortion during a typical abortion... Silent Scream of the child being killed through abortion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq27UYHdxn8&feature=fvwrel
I doubt you or anyone else would want this to happen to THEM, if they could choose... but these children have no voice, so we must speak up for them!

 

WRONG!!!

http://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/Notes/neuron_pain.htm

Oh! and that youtube?................................fake

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silent_Scream

 

Where is your response to the previous post in our discussion ? You did not have a response so now you jump back into the thread asking the same stupid questions that have been answered earlier ?

Of course the zygote is alive .. who claims it is not ? .. So is a cow and we eat cows ? no one is dancing around this term and this I have answered this question to you before.

The person who is dancing around the issue is you because you have no convincing argument to back up your premise that a zygote is a living human.

Now go back and hide in the corner because you have no valid defense for your premise.

 

I think Bower did a fine job of refuting some of your other arguments but these had nothing to do with the zygote so I will deal only with the fallacy above.

1) Biology is the domain science in relation to what is classified a human and what is not.
2) Medicine considers a human "dead" even though many cells are still alive .. without significant brain function (20-24 weeks is the range experts give for this), so obviously the "entire field of Medicine" does not agree with you

"A child is a developing human being" Correct

"Development starts at conception" Correct (kind of) .. development of the zygote of a sort .. but not in the way a child develops. The zygote is involved in a process of creation of something that in time will develop into a human .. but this is different than "Child development" which takes place within a single organism.

Your are confused by terminology. "Child development" (from the medical dictionary online)

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/child+development

Obviously the Medical dictionary does not agree with your definition of "child development"

Often you can not use dictionary or other definitions in the way you are trying to. Often it takes an understanding of the subject matter otherwise we would not need textbooks.

For example:

Some classes/textbooks on "child development" may well cover the embryo or even sperm or egg as part of the course. This does not mean that the sperm or embryo is a developing child.

Dictionaries may use the term "with Child" to describe a pregnant woman because that was a phrase used hundreds of years ago. This does not mean that a child exists in the belly of a pregnant woman. The dictionary is giving you what a person means when using colloquial language .. not whether or not that colloquial definition is true.

The Domain science is Biology .. A single human cell is not classified as a human .. because it is not a human.

Rather trying to do the semantics dance .. try explaining what "your" rational is for claiming that this particular human cell (aka "the zygote) is a human ?

It has been said numerous times by folks much smarter than I that if you can not explain a concept in simple terms such that a 14 yr old (young person) can understand, your do not really understand teh concept.

So .. in your own words .. How do "you" figure that this single human cell is the same or similar to a human such that it should have rights including the right to life ?

Or .. you can try and tackle this one. What is the significant difference between the single cell at conception, and any other human cell, that makes one entitled to more rights than the other.


"

 

I am enjoying the numerous self portraits that you have been posting but you should really stop throwing around terms that you don't understand such as "child" and "baby".

 

I'll type this very slowly for you

it's either life or death

can it be any more clear?

 

You mean could you be any less clear.

Life or death of what ?

 

life for the baby

or

death for the inconvenience

if abortion is chosen it is to simply erase a mistake, eliminate an inconvenience, toss away some goo, say buh bye to the zef, send a zygote packing, dispose of a clump of cells

 

Overly simplistic representation.

If it is so clear then why does Queensland have virtually the same abortion rate as the USA despite having very strict laws about abortion? Because the truth of the matter is it is not just about a foetus. It is also about the woman herself - so it is not A life and A death but TWO lives and sometimes sadly the risk of two deaths

 

If it were that cut and dried our abortion rate would be nil - it never is

 

You seem to think that the single human cell at conception is a baby. Why ?

 

hmmm

so at conception the female knows she is pregnant? Or, does she know later on during the bag of goo stage? Or is it the life's inconvenience stage?

 

This is the forth or fifth time I have asked you to justify your premise that a zygote is a baby and yet again you dodge the question.

You can not defend your premise ... I got it. At least you know that at the zygote stage no baby exists.

Perhaps you want to try and make a case for a this "bag of goo" you refer to as being a living human ?

 

Don't have sex with a man if you don't want to get pregnant. Or take some very simple and cheap precautions. Condoms or various birth control.

I am a guy who has to have money taken out of his pay every two weeks because some (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) wanted to have a kid to collect benefits. I am never laying with another Black woman again after that. She flaunts my mixed daughter around like some piece of a prized collection and I don't even get to parent her at all. She will be raised as some hedonistic, uneducated ghetto trash like her mother and not a (*)(*)(*)(*) thing I am allowed to do about it other than subsidize her decision against my will through child support. Not to mention the food stamps, and free healthcare that they make everyone pay for.

I imagine by the age of 14 my daughter will be pregnant and doing the same things as her mother whom I regret with every fiber of hindsight ever having dated.