FAITH in a RELIGION for those who REFUSE FACTS.

Whatelse?

Atheism is a belief with a religious quality - so atheist have the same right to live in their belief like everybody else. That's the freedom of religion. Atheists don't have more rights than other believers only because lots of them say "I know" instead to say "I believe".

Only one problem in this context: The European Union for example tried to forbid in Italy to hang crosses in classrooms - even in regions where all children are Catholics and even in cases if no one has any proiblem in Italy with a cross in a classroom. In my eyes such tryings make no sense.

I personally for example would always try to bring all signs of all relIgions of all children in the classroom of the children to show to them all: "You are welcome - here is your home". And from the point of education it makes really a very big difference to use an abstracta like "the Buddhists" or to say very concrete "our Buddhist". If in one class lives a Buddhist and in another class is none then it could even happen that the class with the Buddhists feels privileged. Same with other religions. I also would have not a Problem to hang a sign of an atheist in the class. But I would have a very big problem to eliminante all signs of all religions of all children in a classroom only because an atheist likes to be free from all signs of all religions. To say "I don't like this - I don't like that" is an easy thing leading to a lazy way. I'm on the other side sure that teachers, parents and children will always find good solutions, if not an extreme brainwashed brainwasher tries to force everyone to do his not existing remotely controlled will.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPpd-6X3tEo

 

Do you love it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RsYOKPeylk

 

Well....in the U.S. a person has a right to wear whatever religious symbol they would like as long as it is not disruptive to the classroom such as a Christian walking into school carrying a 18 foot cross! LOL!!

But there is a separation of Church and State and this means we can't have religious symbolism decorating our public buildings.

Atheists and Agnostics...I am an agnostic...by and by are very quiet and although there are a few vocal atheists...they usually have a valid point although most atheists and just about every agnostic I have ever met give those of faith a lot of leeway.

Issues usually occur when some religious group attempts to force their religions ideology upon the entire group such as when certain Christian groups decried a successful lawsuit by an Atheist couple that did not want their son to have to listen to Christian Prayers that were being done in class.

Now the Atheist couple won their suit and it was asked of the Christian group if they would have an issue if their child was in class where a Muslim or Hindu prayer was being held? The Christian group did not answer in a yes or no fashion. Then they were asked...since in the U.S. it is LEGAL for those of a Satanist Religion to practice their religion would the Christian parents have issue with the Satanist's praying in the classroom.

The Christian parents FREAKED OUT!

Needless to say the lawsuit was won by the Atheist couple.

AboveAlpha

 

I don't know what's usual in the States.

The secularisation here was in 1806 - and as far as I know was the USA sincever a secular state. So I don't know why the separation of state and church is a big theme in the english speaking world.

If the citizens of the USA decided to do so - why not?

I am Agnostic and I'm a Catholic - so I guess you like to say to me you are an Atheist who knows that he's only believeing that god is not existing.

Hmm - if it is important what you say here I will translate it word by word. I don't see in the moment any sense in this sentence.

The last time we had problems with an atheist was, when a professor of physics in the university here was astonished that his son is praying every morning in school since two years. What sounded first like a gigantic catastrophe and one of the greatest problems of the world was just simple the fact that no one knew that he didn't like this. As far as I heard they found other ways to meditate in the morning.

Satanism is not a religion - maybe a kind of murderous antireligion. Do you remember for example SharonTate, the wife of Roman Polanski, who was murdererd from the Mansons? A heavy tragedy in lots of dimebsions and directions. Your amusement in such a case is the amusement of death.

Justice and laws are in general completly different things. The United States decided to do what exactly in this case?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGrR-7_OBpA

 

Well Satanists supposedly play to Satan so I cannot see how you cannot consider than a Religion.

As far as why you think it would be OK if people decided it was OK to place Religious Symbols and Statues in public places...first of all if this was made to be a law it would mean only those religious groups that had the money to pay for such Religious Symbols or statues would either have them or have them in great number.

It makes no sense for the Government or States to have to pay for such things and as well it would be a mess!! LOL!

It is best that Religion is kept out of Public issues.

AboveAlpha

 

The negation of all positive values (="Satanism") negates the value "life". You can say a lot of things - but not if you are dead. So your opinion in case of Satanism is for me me out of any discussion because I try to find my way in the light as a child of god being a lover of life. I hate death and destruction - and I don't see any sense to educate children to become Satanists only because crazy american Atheists like to be right with their confused form of "knowledge" - completly independent from anything what the result will be.

Religions are always public. What you say means something like: Atheists should be the only one allowed [anti]religious [anti]church.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kQZczcG210

 

I try to avoid feelings of love and hate toward a land mass with arbitrarily defined boundaries. I would rather love people everywhere then get caught up in nationalistic fervor.

 

Aha ... Nothing to say is sometimes a very loud desperated cry. If you are in love then you are vulnerable.

[video=youtube;vWVZLXuf7ds]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWVZLXuf7ds[/video]

 

Why are you claiming I had nothing to say? I just answered your question.

 

HEY!!!

I we were not debating about what YOUR beliefs or opinion were as far as SATANISM.

We were talking about whether or not Satanism is a religion and it does in fact fit that definition....whether you or I like it or not.

AboveAlpha

 

You can't even distinguished facts from theories.
I have the facts you don't.
Again show me your ape ancestors as to which ape species you originated from it is not too late go to the labs and have the scientist take some DNA sample from you and tell us the public which ape species are you from if you can not proof that than I truly you do not understand truth and facts.

Again do not include me and my kind in your ape theories. We evolve from the human kind you I will accept that your kind evolve from the great apes that is why you and I our difference are very clear.

Religion mainly the Catholic Christian church us all about facts. Atheist is all about theories not even about science.

 

And you can't distinguish an Atheist from an AGNOSTIC....which the later is what I am.

Look....I really don't care what you believe. You can believe that you came from the tears of Fairies for all I care.

I have no intention of ringing your doorbell at your home early in the morning and handing out books about Scientific FACTS be it evolution or cosmology....I am perfectly happy to allow you to go on with your life in the state of ignorance which you desire....NO PROBLEM!!!

BUT....AND FORTUNATELY....the U.S. States and Federal Government....the Vatican....as well as EVERY SINGLE MAJOR CHRISTIAN SECT.....and EVERY SINGLE PRIVATE CHRISTIAN SCHOOL....and every single Public School in the United States....currently TEACHES EVOLUTION and that Human's shared a COMMON ANCESTOR WITH GREAT APES!!!

They teach this in PUBLIC AND PRIVATE CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS.

Now the Christian Schools have a disclaimer that states that it has been determined that the EVOLUTIONARY PROCESS is how all life upon Earth developed and that they believe GOD used this process to create all life....which is fine.

But NONE OF THEM TEACH GENESIS AS A REALITY.

AboveAlpha

 

I don't know in what name of what kind of "we"-collective you are speaking - but "we" (you and I ) don't share any common sense in case of "satanism". Satanism is maybe not automatically a crime - neverthelless Satanism - the praying to the evil mights in the world - will lead very fast to very heavy crimes. It's somehow funny if the USA calls everyone a terrorist but protects Satanists. Perhaps Satanism is a kind of joke of the young rich urban population in the States, who are experienced that fish swims in boxes in supermarkets. But I'm for example able to imagine that Hitler could had made a contract with the devil. I don't say it was in this way - but it could be. It drives me a little nervous that so many very intelligent Germans tried to kill the stupid tyrant Hitler, but nobody was successfull. More Germans tried to kill Hitler than all other leaders of Germany in thousands of years before. I don't have any explanation for this phenomenon.

And remember:
Once you start down the dark path, forever it will dominate your destiny.
Yoda

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-YAbdMzVWQ

 

Why do you speak with other people, if you don't care what they believe? Oh - This is by the way a real question. Most of my questions are real questions. I would like to understand why you or somone else says such sentences.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7VG00lGjug

 

Yes. It is a scolarly paper from a major university.

 

That isn't an answer to my question; it's an appeal to authority. I asked you about their argumentation and brought up a specific example of why it was bad. And all you have to say in defense of the argumentation is "It's from Dartmouth, therefore it's right!"?

It's a student run Christian apologetics journal, anyways, not a scholarly paper.

 

I've tried to look back into the thread, but not quite following the argument.

Who is denying that the Gospels were written several decades after the Crucifixion? It's well accepted that they were.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/stewart.cfm?id=410
http://carm.org/when-were-gospels-written-and-by-whom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel#Dating

 

It is not about whether you are an atheist or agnostic this is about understanding facts and theories and it seem very clear you don't know the difference (between facts and theories).

I believe me and my ancestors evolved from Humans or Great Human and that fact can be seen today. While you believe you and your ancestors evolved from a Great Ape or from a theory facts that is absent.

I don't think you have scientific facts what you have are theories. I am very happy that I am from the human evolution and I can only sympathise with you because I really can not see any way you or your ancestors could have evolved from apes or great apes but if you insist you evolved from apes than I have no problem with your position.

They teach evolution as a scientific THEORY not facts. SHARED A COMMON ANCESTOR DOES NOT MEAN HUMANS ARE FROM APES. Maybe apes evolved from a single Super Human.

And they also TEACH IT IS A THEORY.

That is correct evolution is the process as to how God created the universe every living things in their own kind.

They taught Genesis as fact that humans evolved from human kind supported by evidences the most prominent evidence are us and the difference between humans and apes scientist have tried to find a link in terms of evolution between humans and apes and they can not find any apes are apes and humans are humans.

Why must you and your kind insist that humans evolved from apes in spite of the absence of facts and evidences?
If you can accept humans some how evolved from a great ape, can it be possible that apes actually evolved from a great human that that great ape was actually a human? And from great human came apes first than later on the true human came later?

 

You have been told this about 100 times. There is no such thing as a species called a "Great Ape". Great apes are what we colloquially call species belonging to the taxonomic family Hominidae. We belong to that family. We are Great Apes. Great human? Wtf are you even rambling about? I wonder, sometimes.

We are apes. We are apes. What don't you get about this?

You don't understand what a theory means in science. Gravity is explained by a theory and gravity is a fact. The same is true of evolution.

 

Listen to your self who is rumbling first you said no such thing as great apes now you are saying great apes are colloquially called species???? so is there or is there no great apes??? I can understand why you wonder with such much inability to understand the difference between apes and humans because maybe and as you claim it yourself not me that you descended from great apes.

You are ape not me. And I get it I have said it I accept it that you and your ancestors evolved from apes but what you can not understand is that me and my ancestors evolved from humans. Why can't you understand that maybe lack of human intelligence??

Theory are unproven facts. Gravity started out as a theory now it is a fact in a limited sense because there are still many things that scientist have not uncover about the full potential of gravity and that part of uncover discoveries is called theories. Evolution is theory because scientist are not 100% sure but you seem to be smarter than the scientist you are 100% sure.

 

I can't help anyone recognize an aswere, that is a relection of intellect, not instruction. Gods word is authoratative. We will be accountable to what is says, whether we accept it or reject it, we will be still be accountable. Many position themselves to reject what ever is presented.

http://carm.org/when-were-gospels-written-and-by-whom

 

Your ancestors evolved from humans? What are you now?

 

Yeah, and what reason do we have to claim that the Gospels are God's word?

More hand-waving apologetics.

 

Actually humans did not evolve from ape. Both human and ape evolved from a common ancestry and split into two different species.
It really isn't that complicated.