Gaddafi murdered by NATO and new buddies.

And????..It wouldn't of succeeded had NATO not intervened. This is not controversial.

 

The income of the average Egyptian is less than $6,000 a year.. The average Libyan ...$12000 a year.. While Libya pumps more oil per person than the Emirates.. Libya ranks with Mexico.. while the Emirates are rich..

NATO came on board five weeks after the Libyans rebelled against Khadafi.

 

then they should have kept their (*)(*)(*)(*)ed noses out of it at that point.

danm

 

It's not just a question of the 'rebels' being 'helped'. I have pointed out previously that they wouldn't have succeeded without NATO. The rebels admit it themselves.

 

LOLOL.. Do you hate Obama so much that you would give Khadafi a pass?

 

Margot, that's politics. "why the Libyans revolted, and why at this time." I'd say that's was easier because was worked out script. "Gadhafi went to meet and opened up ... and he was caught" because it's easiest way.
You know that Libya is a complicated country.

 

oh i don't doubt that in the least.

 

That's you projecting. You have nothing.

 

They often ask:"What for NATO do this?"Such a naivety always moves me.What for,you ask?They intimidate.They show us killing Gaddafi,reprisals of Libyans rats against civilians, blood-soaked children's bodies and the ruined cities ...As if they tell us: come and see.



Come and see! If you do not submit to us, we will methodically grind you into the stone age, we'll throw bombs on your heads, cluster and depleted uranium, napalm will burn you - under a happy hooting of the "international community" and the UN,and o one will help you.

Come and see!If you do not submit to us, we will kill you, cut, burn, hang,we will rape your wives, sisters and daughters and pull out from the womb their unborn babies under a scream of the Western humanists and human rights activists, and no one will come to your rescue.And you'll not have even the last solace - knowing that your death will be avenged, that your killers and torturers, sooner or later will be punished - killers will come out unscatced, because we'll take them under our protection.

So,what is the conclusion?

Wailing, appeals to the international community, to the conscience and sense of justice will not help here: the high-handed and drunk with the blood capitalism do not have a conscience.

The bandit respect only the force.Let Russia saves a nuclear potential inherited from the Soviet Union.Let Iran and N Korea get their own A-bombs.West is afraid of nuclear proliferation?Long live the nuclear proliferation!The nuclear weapon will equalize the chances.

 

I had interesting weekend talking to some Libyans.

My friend owns a real estate business and has had many Libyans coming buying property.
He said it is like when US invaded Iraq the Iraqi businessmen were setting up home and businesses here in Egypt.
He has shown 10 Libyan families properties in my compound alone this weekend
Man!!! it must be bad if they are moving to Egypt

Last night I was driving back from town and counted many Libyan registered cars. Mainly silver Mercedes. There has been a steady flow of them, my side the West of Cairo for months. Not so far from me is a construction site flying Libyan and Egyptian flags side by side. 3 Libya and 3 Egyptian from the steel rod uppers.

They fear Libya will not see recovery for a very long time and see Egypt as a better prospect!!
Maybe Saif will move in next door to me

 

They probably comitted atrocities under Qaddafi-regime and are now afraid to be trialed and sentenced in new Libya.

Egypt could learn something.

 

This is a false assumption as dedicated insurgencies have always been able to eventually overthrow government control. All that is really required is for the insurgency to be willing to continue the rebellion indefinately. The examples of this are so numerous as to be indisputable. I don't believe that it can be established that the Libyan rebels were not dedicated to the overthrowing of the Gaddafi regime which would be the only valid argument that they would have failed lacking NATO support. Eventually, so long as they remained dedicated, they would have won.

 

I have to disagree. ETA failed. The Tamil Tigers failed. I don't believe that the Libyan coup would have been successful without NATO bombing, NATO intelligence and the introduction of NATO armaments. If it had stood a chance, NATO wouldn't have compromised itself.

 

There are many who haven't eventually overthrown government control, Shiva TD...and some are still trying without help from outside agencies.

What I find puzzling is why support to such an excessive extent, far beyond any mandate given to NATO, Libya...while the West ignores Bahrain, Saudi, Syria and Yemen, etc in the same circumstances?

Having just read moon's post, I tend to agree.

 

The circumstances are NOTHING alike... in Saudi Arabia or Bahrain or any of the GCc countries.. and NONE of them are like Yemen.

 

I have noticed you do rather tend to differentiate between the GCC states and the others..bias perhaps...but being oil rich and Western oriented does not make them remotely democratic....or even fair and equitable.

You may support rich sole monarchs.......but obviously not everyone does, otherwise there would have been no demand in Bahrain for greater political freedom and equality for the majority Shia population.......would there? Kindly explain to me the difference between Bahrain and Ian Smith's Rhodesia in ethos and outcome, if not degree.

Saudi Arabia, of course, went into Bahrain to bolster the Sunni-minority regime against a rising tide of protest led by the island kingdom’s Shia majority, and Saudi rulers issued clear instructions to adopt an iron-fisted policy with the demonstrators in Bahrain.

And here was me thinking that the likes of the GCC, NATO and other multi-country treaties were intended as mutual support against external forces, rather than a back-up in case one of them didn't have enough fire power to withstand legitimate internal protest as to government actions/inactions.

Saudi is similar to America and Israel bar wearing a thobe (is that the word?), rather than shorts or a yarmulke...ie paranoid and irrational....not against all Muslims, as are America and Israel, but against Shia Muslims wherever they are..

Democracy is not, imo, an essential to produce a cohesive society, in fact, I think democracy, as we in the West define it, really means that mostly the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, the middle pays for the poorer and the rich bank every penny to make themselves richer......which makes for anything but a cohesive society.

I have no problem with any society, on whatever ethos it is based, which does fairness and equity for all those who live within its borders, the natives of whatever religion/original ethnicity.....and also those invited in to the country as immigrant workers......which Saudi Arabia doesn't appear to do.

I have no time at all for the vast majority of governments which predicate their policies/ethos etc on making bliddy sure they stay in power.

 

Not bias... experience..

Bahrain is not about democracy, its about Iran wanting to rule Bahrain .. Iran has been up to tricks since I was a girl.

The Saudi don't discriminate against the Shia.. Many Shia have worked up thru the ranks in the oil business andd/or been sent to university in the US.. Like Ali Naimi.

I support the SAG because of their 70 year track record and sober dedication to insure the social and economic future of the Saudi people.

Immigrant workers in Saudi Arabia do fine... until they overstay their work visas and fall thru the cracks so they have NO protection under the law. Saudi Arabia rounds them up every 18 months or so and flies them home.


Meanwhile:

http://www.politicalforum.com/current-events/214533-libya-put-killers-qaddafi-trial.html

 

Quite true...As I previously highlighted, the 'rebels' themselves admit as much.

 

This is nonsense. The 'rebels' themselves actually admitted that they would have failed without NATO's support. This was not a popular revolution as is portrayed in the mainstream corporate media. Back in the UK, after several months spent in Libya, investigative journalist Lizzie Phelan provided testimony in relation to the criminal war carried out by the US and NATO against the government and people of Libya. In this testimony she provides a very moving report of the heroism of the Libyan people defending their country against the invader. Moreover, her critiqué of the corporate/government media and the role they continue to play in supporting war crimes is (*)(*)(*)(*)ing.

Of the said media she said:

"They said that Gaddafi was hated by his people, but they never showed us the 1.7 million people in a country of 6 million in Green Square on July the 1st. Or the masses in Tarhuna, in Suppa, in Bani Walid, in Sirte and across the country who demonstrated to pledge their allegiance to their leader and to the Jama Haria."

"They never showed us the masses, as I said, of ordinary men and women who had accepted the government's offer of weapons to defend their families, neighborhoods and country from people who wish to condemn them to enslavement to imperialism. They said they were targeting Gaddafi's military forces - they ignored the 33 children, 32 women and 20 men who I saw buried in the small and traditional town of Marj in Zlitan in early August."

"They said on August 20th or 21st that Tripoli fell without resistance. But they didn't tell us that in twelve hours alone 1,300 people were massacred in that city and 900 were injured."

They said that Tripoli fell without resistance and that Saif al-Islam (a son of Gaddafi) had been arrested and captured and that Gaddafi's compound Bab al-Aziza was taken by the rebels. But despite that Saif al-Islam himself showed up in the hotel where I was trapped and took a group of journalists outside to see with their very own eyes, they didn't show us the thousands of people filling Bab al-Aziza and the streets of Tripoli waving the green flag on the night of August 22nd.

They said that Tripoli fell without resistance. But they didn't show us that in the 24 hours after those journalists from all the West's major networks had seen at the site that Bab al-Aziza alone was pounded 63 times with NATO bombs.

They didn't show us how all the gatherings of the people to defend their capital from those who wish to send back to the times of colonial puppet King Idris were attacked with missiles and Apache gunships.

They didn't show us how the brave people of Abu-Sleem - the poorest area of Tripoli and the staunchest area of support for Gaddafi, resisted for five days until on August 24th NATO attacked anything that moved and piles of bodies lined the streets.

They told us that the country was liberated. Six weeks later the rebels have conceded that they won't be able to move their headquarters to the capital. The rebels have confirmed - I think it was today - that they won't be able to take Bani Walid and Sirte also remains strong.

So... Gaddafi - mass murderer - hated by his people so much that they would beg NATO to bomb their own country - hated so much that the capital city fell without resistance.

Or NATO - mass murderer, killing the Libyan masses because they would die for their leader just like in Tripoli.

I know which one we have mountains of evidence for.

Lizzie Phelan's highly acclaimed testimony starts @ 16:48.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3SU9qUAkSg"]Libya and Imperialism: Dan Glazebrook, Lizzie Phelan, Harpal Brar - YouTube[/ame]

 

No......it is about Bahrain discriminating against the Shia majority...or can you give any links or information to show that those involved in the Arab Spring insurrections are driven by Iran, despite having a really nice, fair and equitable life in Bahrain?

From all I have read, the Saudi Monarchy/State limits Shia political participation to "notables" who benefit from their ties to power and in turn, are expected to control their communities. For years, they have faced religious and economic discrimination because they’re viewed as Iranian puppets. They have usually been denounced as heretics, traitors, and non-Muslims.

And Saudi is not as irrational as America and Israel?

Seems to me that the SAG (which I assume means the Saudi Arabian Government, such as it is) ensures the social and economic future of the Saudi majority Wahabi Sunni Muslim people. Saudi Arabia is a glaring example of religious apartheid.....not a lot different to Israel, in fact.

It's a pity you have not convinced the world-wide media that Immigrant workers in Saudi Arabia do fine. Some may well do...but it appears even more do not...and it appears to have nothing to do with overstaying their work visas.

I note your link. I do hope that Libya, at least, does not slant its law towards the favoured majority at the expense of the unimportant minorities.

You say you are speaking from experience...would that be the experience of one of the favoured majority, that of a Shia Muslim or that of an immigrant worker?

 

The video won't work.

Who is Lizzie Phelan and why is her testimony "acclaimed"?

There NO bio information on her anywhere.. She seem to have sprung from Iran's PRess TV.

 

Nothing wrong with Iran's Press TV, imo....what is your problem with it?

I think it gives a voice to those Westerners who are rarely reported in the Western Press, because they don't sing from the "America and all its Allies are great and everybody else is Muslim terrorists" hymn sheet.

 

You have evry justification in agreeing with moon, because he is correct:

The Guardian declared:

'Rebels breach last stronghold in capital.'

http://yfrog.com/z/klcqk3j

The article described how 'The rebels' breakthrough came 'after a day in which they had insouciantly demonstrated their superiority.'

But 'rebels' had not breached the 'last stronghold'. It was breached by state of the art fighter-bombers, helicopter gunships and missiles supplied by some of the world's premier air forces, and by a ragtag army of 'rebels'.

The Independent's Patrick Cockburn noted on ZNet:

'The insurgents THEMSELVES ADMIT that without the air war waged on their behalf – with 7,459 air strikes on pro-Gaddafi targets – they would be dead or in flight.'

http://www.zcommunications.org/qaddafi-has-lost-but-who-has-won-by-patrick-cockburn

Clearly, but inconveniently, reporters should be referring to a 'Nato-"rebel" alliance', or perhaps a 'Nato-led-"rebel" alliance'. The truth might be much darker. US congressman Dennis Kucinich has asked:

'Was the United States' Central Intelligence Agency involved in planning for regime change prior to events in February and March in Benghazi? Did the CIA and its assets have a role in fomenting a civil war?

'Was the United States, through participation in the overthrow of the regime, furthering the aims of international oil corporations in pursuit of control over one of the world's largest oil resources?'

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28942.htm

 

Press TV.. is notorious.. Like WND or DEBKA.

Phelan has been reporting for Russia Today, Press TV an Iranian public channel , Pravda.ru and the Voltaire Network .

Under the name Lizzie Cocker she has been writing for the Daily Mail [11] and for the Morning Star [12] [13] [14] where she reported on anti-war rappers Lowkey and Akala and the Impeach Blair campaign waged against UK Prime Minister Tony Blair on alleged High crimes and misdemeanours related to the War in Iraq. . She also reports for the Green Left Weekl

WIKI...

 

This is testimony from a British journalist who broke down with emotion becuse of what she witnessed. Are you calling her a liar because it doesn't suit yourpre-conceived agenda.?