Has the Lincoln Project gone too far?

No logical person thinks 9/11 is comparable, because it’s not. But, there is one alight similarity. Like 9/11, the Jan 6th nonsense is being used to manipulate people into not seeing past their emotions. What do you think this tripe video is all about?

 

I answered that here: http://www.politicalforum.com/index...-project-gone-too-far.590027/#post-1072780713

 

You may be under the impression that I’m convinced that you're position is other wise, Im not.
Your original post that I responded too was well thought out, and i seen that a justification of why OTHER people would believe the two events are comparable, and that’s what i went with.
If i would have taken time to read the post you linked, I would have responded to that one. Because it was well thought out, and I aim to make good counter arguments to good posts.

I shouldn’t have posted that people need mental help if they see the similarities, that was my frustration coming out. I’m frustrated, because as a country we have been down this road before, and a majority of the country fell for this type of manipulation, and propaganda after 9/11. I personally fell for this type of propaganda.
There’s no excuses for what those morons did on Jan 6th, and a good number are paying the consequences for allowing themselves to be manipulated by a demagogue like Trump. It is a affront to our country that Trump didn't face any consequences for his role, but then again those in power hardly ever seem to face any consequences for their actions.
Now take a step back, and look the rhetoric used these days to describe what happened on Jan 6th, and then compare it to the rhetoric used after 9/11. That is what’s comparable.
For arguments sake, let’s take out poor people in muslim nations, and Insert the people who still support Trump. Is it just just the people who stormed Capitol hill that are the domestic terrorist, or is everyone who denies trump lost a domestic terrorist, what about the people who acknowledge he lost and yet still support him. What about the people who just voted for the guy? I’m sure you can see where I'm going with this.
Americans seem to have a hard time discerning the bad actors, from people who aren’t. We also show that we are incapable of learning from history. I say this, because I had the same exact mindset after 9/11.

 

I do not see them as the same and if I could make so one of them didn't happen I would choose 9-11 because of the number of lives lost.
However, I am a bit concerned that a failed attempt to steal an election by storming our capital is treated as a "non-event" by so many conservatives. It was an effort to fundamentally change our Republic and how it is governed by the same people who now point to Democrats as "Communists" and accuse them of fundamentally trying to change our Republic. If you are concerned about one you should be concerned about the other.
I am also concerned that some posters here cite the 2997 unneeded deaths on 911 as an important consideration in weighing the two. I agree with that, but I am also concerned that the same people who are concerned about those deaths don't seem to be concerned at all with the 608,000 Americans have died due to covid in the last 1.5 years and wish to ignore that also.
Mostly I am concerned that Conservatives who used to argue eloquently, logically, and truthfully have been replaced by people who would rather condem others, dismiss facts, and ignore their own hypocracy. Perhaps the later has driven the former out of the party. [see Liz Chaney]

 

I generally don't concern myself with what other people think of me. If they want to share it, cool. If not, cool too. Your opinion of my opinions is your business.

And, on the other side, I generally don't pass judgment on other people. Trump is an exception but he's not an actual person. He's a monster so that doesn't count.

Thank you for saying that. I think we all have been guilty of that. I am not ALWAYS calm but I am about 98% of the time. I just don't have the mental bandwidth to deal with whackadoodles much anymore.

That's kind of funny because I interned in a political office while in college and I got assigned to taking all the complaint calls from residents because I'm a good listener and try to find workable solutions or some type of "middle" ground somewhere. I also have the ability to act under pressure without panicking (it's part of complex-PTSD). Now? I would probably tell them to shut up and nobody cares if your trash man was 2 hours late! Get a life and stop stalking the dude! LOL I used to be in charge of looking after my younger cousins when I was a teenager. I have two kids now and I love them more than anything in the world and I can't even watch them bounce off the walls all day long. I only had two rules when they lived with me:

1. Don't kill your sibling.

2. Don't do anything crazy I have to try to explain to an ER doctor. (Luckily, I have medical experience so I could handle most of the more mundane stuff without a doctor or hospital visit).

Everything else was negotiable. There are two of them so I'm already outnumbered. I've learned to pick my battles.

Thank you.

I believe we all have done that from time to time. It's very difficult to be manipulated (we are left feeling confused and hurt) and to watch others be manipulated (we feel helpless and confused by their blind allegiance <to whatever the thing is in that moment.>

So, guess what? You're normal.

Yes. Unfortunately, they had to "get" there the hard way.

As far as Trump facing the consequences...this is more of a snapshot of how other people *rank* him versus any kind of Teflon on him. If people in the party and independents that lean right were to stand together and say "No, you aren't going to keep destroying our party or agenda" his "power" would dissipate.

I think I posted this on this forum at one point but I can't remember. About 20 years ago, I was hired as a consultant for a worldwide organization (can't disclose their business). The CEO of one of that organization was doing some dirty stuff. As with most higher-ups, it was just ignored until it couldn't be ignored. So, several of the board members and CEOs from sister organizations planned a meeting in the evening in the middle of the week. They wanted to meet in private to discuss the next steps in having this guy removed. Well, there was a traitor somewhere in the bunch because the guy found out.

Here's the crazy part. He switched vehicles with his wife so nobody would know he was in the vicinity, hid behind some bushes closest to the exit door for the parking lot and LITERALLY grabbed people on the way in and pulled them behind the bushes for a verbal beatdown. ALL of them voted against removing him. I was much younger in those days and it shocked me. Here's a guy that's making 6 figures, has had a nice run but overstepped too many times. That was also the day that I learned that bullies often can and do prosper (bascially all that nonsense they teach us in school is just fake).

That's what I recall every time I read about another person turning tale and licking Trump's boots. Bullies can ONLY win if the bullied stood up for themselves. And, just like playground politics, none of them except Cheney had it in them to say it aloud and look what they did to her. [Side note: I'm not naming names but a poster on this site tried to claim that Republicans are "accepting and tolerant" and used Romney and Cheney as examples. I resisted the urge to revisit that thread and ask for his rationale on why they couldn't vote fast enough to ditch Cheney.]

Yes. And, there are countless more smaller events between those two major ones. It happens every single day.

I don't believe that anyone that participated in the Capitol riot is a terrorist.

I don't believe ALL Trump supporters are violent.

I don't believe ALL Trump supporters are evil.

I don't believe ALL Trump supporters are stupid.

I don't believe ALL Trump supporters agree with EVERYTHING he does.

The only MONSTER in the room is Trump.

Have you ever heard anything about pre-screening polls for movies? I read about it years ago. In a nutshell, Americans are more likely to down vote movies that don't have *happy* endings. It doesn't matter what the subject is...it HAS to end neat and clean and happy. And, in my own interpersonal relationships, that holds mostly true.

Americans (USA) just don't like reality. That's why advertising and these kinds of projects (the one this thread is about) work. As long as we add some glitter and smiley faces it's all going to be okay. And, this is a big win for Big Pharma because people are racing to their doctors and psychiatrist for drugs because they are not happy 100% of the time. Yep, it's called being an adult.

We've created a whole country of people that don't know how to deal with problems, stress or anything unpleasant. NOBODY likes dealing with that stuff but pretending it doesn't exist clearly isn't helping.

Scary, isn't it?

 

Put your tribalist tendencies aside for a second, along with your assumptions you have, especially if you’re directly aiming the conservative nonsense at me.
To clear the air, i consider myself apart of the left who didn’t let trump destroy their cognitive ability down to where only their lizard brain works, which is the Limbic system. It’s the most primal part of our brains.

Now once again, let’s try to put a couple of things in perspective. This video is meant to manipulate your emotions, I've said this this five hundred times already. They irony that nobody seems to notice, is that this video is coming from people who are cut out of the same exact cloth as Trump. How do you think trump actually won? Easy, using the very same playbook perfected by scumbags grifters like Rick Wilson, and Steve Schmidt. This is the same group who managed to get filthy rich while being apart of the #resistance, and managing to have very little impact on the 2020 elections. These are the new moral authorities on trump, Jan 6th, and the whole reason we are having this exchange in the first place. Let that sink in for a minute.

Now let’s address the hypocrisy real quick, if you’re seriously under the impression that the hypocrisy is just coming from team red, and not team blue, you’re out of your depth, because both sides spew enough hypocrisy to make normal want to bash their brains out against a wall. You absolutely have no moral high ground on this issue.

Next , you’re under the impression that some how 9/11, and the pandemic can be conflated. . It’s weird, because it seems like some people are more concerned with politicizing the pandemic, and not the 600k who have died. That would make that somebody no better than trump. Just saying.

The last point that needs addressing is the Jan 6 is a non issue to the right. Why would it be, since all the chaos prior to Jan 6th was a non issue to the left. This is what tribalist do, they brush off stuff that their side does, that shouldn’t be brushed off. Sound familiar. It’s almost like both cults deserve each other.

 

Scary, indeed. Thank you for the effort you put in your response. I really appreciate that.
The last part made me chuckle, about Americans and our coping skills. I don’t know why the first thing to pop into my mind was a scene from The Spranos , where the one legged russian house keeper tells Tony that the problem with Americans is that they never expect bad things to happen, while the rest of the world only expects bad things to happen, and they’re never disappointed.

 

It seems to have gone far enough. I haven't heard a thing from them in months.

 

Sure. No problem.

I remember that scene. Yep. Funny BUT TRUE!

 

9/11 was a PRETEXT for destabilizing the Middle East. The Shrub and his fellow neo-cons fully intended to invade Iraq before the towers fell, with all of the horrific consequences to the Iraqi people and American servicemen. What happened on 9/11 merely gave them the excuse to do it earlier than they had already planned. Anyone who thinks otherwise is mentally defective or selling revisionist history.

 

Too far is putting it mildly. There is literally no comparison. That isn't even close enough for apples and oranges. More like planetoids and grape fruit.
Chalk it up to a last gasp by people whose political relevance is at an end and are too damn dumb to see it and to full of hubris to exit the stage with some modicum of dignity.

 

I agree it’s a bit too much, but it is exactly what one would expect expect from former dirty tricks party operators.

 

You kinda jumped the gun on this one, because I never said 9/11 wasn’t PRETEXT.
Maniacs in power had been drooling over regime change before 9/11 hopped in their lap. Weird how the very same neocon scumbags from the Bush era have found jobs on so called liberal networks, and a home in the #resistance.

Just saying.

 

I think it has gone way too far. While you can almost find commonality in any 2 events to realistically compare these two are ridiculous. Just looking at the number dead, cost of destruction and outrage from the rest of the world easily separates the event if common sense itself was not good enough.

 

It's silly to compare the two, ridiculous actually. This takes the hyperbole to a new level.

 

I'm not sure I understand what the problem with the Lincon Project advertisement is.

Certainly, the attack on the capitol in January would be unthinkable up until it happened. But if this is a partisan shot by the GOP I don't see it. It's more anti-Trump than anything else. So who do they support, Biden?

 

Your post was very clear -- 9/11 was to blame for Gulf War II and the (further) destabilization of the Middle East. It wasn't. That was already a foregone conclusion before 9/11 happened, and was going to happen regardless. Your assertion, and your flaming poutrage, are utter bullshit.

Just sayin'...

 

What you just spewed up makes no damn sense whatsoever. 9/11 did destabilize the Middle East, this is a fact. You’re arguing over the motives, which i never disagreed with. Thats how dumb your post was, you’re literally having a one person argument with yourself. If you’re saying 9/11 was planned all along, then go check in with Qanaon crowd.

Just stop, you’re embarrassing yourself.

 

Wow.

 

Inability to think logically and rationally, rather than emotionally, especially applying anecdotal evidence to draw absolutely ridiculous conclusions and make ludicrous statements is absolutely a sign of mental illness, or at a minimum self centered ignorance.

 

You're absolutely correct, the middle east was a place of utopia before 9/11. It's was all rainbows and unicorns. The Kurdish and Sunnis dance around the camp fire holding hands singing kum-by-ya.

/ sarcasm

 

Yep, regime change made it way better. Maybe you were hiding under rock when all the carnage was going on.

 

I agree with him. Your post was ridiculously inaccurate from a historical context.

 

What regime change are you speaking about. Please don't tell me Iraq.

 

I don't think you have any contest at all on this issue.