Higher Death, Hospitalization Rates Among Vaccinated Individuals: UK COVID-19 Data

@kazenatsu
Correction: not 0.0085% because at the time of this article there were 45 million people vaccinated in the UK, not the current 48 million. Irrelevant difference, but just to be precise. Let's see why your title is bombastic and biased.

Your title:

Higher Death, Hospitalization Rates Among Vaccinated Individuals: UK COVID-19 Data

Here is another way to present these SAME numbers, which you find in the body of the article, that it's 4,087 people out of the 45 million vaccinated people in the UK at the time:

Only 0.009% of vaccinated individuals caught Delta: UK COVID-19 Data

Or, given that only 26 vaccinated people died of Delta in your article, out of the 45 million vaccinated people in the UK at the time:

Only 0.0000057% of vaccinated individuals died of Delta: UK COVID-19 Data

Are you know realizing the bias in the title of this article? I hope for your sake that now you can see it, otherwise you're a lost cause and I probably shouldn't waste my time with you.

 

I'm 66, and I was fully vaccinated last February. Late this past July, I tested positive for Covid. The vaccine didn't prevent me from getting infected, but ...

I was only sick for 2 days. I had some sinus congestion that lasted a few days after that. By Day 6, I couldn't tell I had even been sick.

Also, I know where and when I got infected, and I had no symptoms for 3 days, and my wife didn't get infected. We kept our distance from each other once we knew I was sick, but for 3 days we interacted normally. She tested negative. My 87 year old mother in-law had to spend her days with us during those 3 days, and she didn't get it either. She also tested negative.

I feel like the vaccine did well for me.

 

@kazenatsu

Another interesting thing. The UK's population is 66.65 million people. So, at the time of this article they had, minus the 45 million vaccinated, 21.65 million unvacinatted.

We got that 0.009% of the vaccinated people caught Delta and 0.0000057% died.

35,521 cases among the unvaccinated. That's 0.016% which is more than 0.009%.

Oh wow, so now it turns out that it's worse for the unvaccinated, huh?

Deaths: 0.000014% which is more than 0.0000057%

Also worse for the unvaccinated.

Now what, big guy?

Even without considering that the 21.65 million unvaccinated have millions of children who are less susceptible and not eligible for the vaccines (subtract the children - 21% of the UK population - and your stats get even more damaging for the unvaccinated), and even considering the pre-selection bias I've mentioned, it turns out that even the raw numbers without paying attention to these obvious intervening factors, are still the other way around!!!

So, please, ask a mod to change your title to:

Higher Death, Hospitalization Rates Among Unvaccinated Individuals: UK COVID-19 Data

Next, see if you learn to look at numbers by considering the FULL set of them (the total number of vaccinated and unvaccinated people in the UK being essential to put these findings in context).

 

Absolutely! Thank you for posting this! And congrats on surviving it without sequelae and without contaminating your loved ones, thanks to the vaccines! Point for science!

 

You do realize there are OTHER ways to avoid spreading this that don't necessitate the vaccine?

All this emphasis on the vaccine as the only way, or the main way, to solve the problems is just intellectually stupid.

 

I know this isn't science. It's only anecdotal. But I have recently shared experiences with 3 men who have also had it.

One was fully vaccinated when he got it. He got it at the same time and place as me. He's in his mid 50s. His experience was just like mine. Symptoms were not severe, and he recovered very quickly.

The second one was my opthamologist. He looks to be about 50. He got it last November before vaccines were available. He was sick for a week, and then he was absolutely drained for another week. He said for that week his energy was at zero. He finally regained his energy, but he said his first day back at work was a struggle.

The third one was an electrician who came to my house a few days ago for some work. He is 39. He was unvaccinated when he got it, and he said he had chills and fever for a solid week (I had chills and fever for a day.)

Anecdotal, but interesting nevertheless.

 

Here is the self-described non-anti-vaxxer posting another anti-vaxxer post. Great.

It's notable how you never addressed my DEMOLITION of the data you presented in your OP, including, post #78 showing that the real numbers considering the full set of people favor the vaccinated, unlike what your title says.

As for other means of protection, of course. Haven't I advocated here several times, for the use of advanced masks (N95 and up, ASTM level 3 with enhanced sealing devices)? I've advocated for supplements that can boost the immune system, for HEPA filters and ventilation, for avoiding indoor crowded spaces, etc., and lamented the superspreading gatherings that our people so imprudently attended.

But yes, the vaccines are outstanding. Safe and efficacious. HUGE predominance of benefits over risks.

 

Yes, of course. Anecdotal but it's supported by large populational surveys and studies. Vaccinated people are much more likely to have milder disease than unvaccinated ones.

 

Yeah but you lot won’t wear masks either

 

The vaccine wasn't available last February. Do you mean you got vaccinated this past February?

I'm glad you recovered and nobody else in your family got sick.

 

Yes. First dose was January, 2021, and second dose was February, 2021.

 

This Russian doctor claims that mRNA technology has been developed in military labs for 40 years.

mRNA Vaccines: The Silent Weapon - LewRockwell It is current, and a very interesting read.

 

@kazenatsu - why the silence on this?

"It's notable how you never addressed my DEMOLITION of the data you presented in your OP, including, post #78 showing that the real numbers considering the full set of people favor the vaccinated, unlike what your title says."

So my numbers, taken directly from your link, show that the true story is that if you look at the total number of vaccinated and unvaccinated Brits, given the large predominance of the former, these hospitalizations and deaths are actually the OPPOSITE of what your title and your article implies. The numbers show that the unvaccinated are faring worse. And the numbers would be even worse for the unvaccinated if we subtracted the pediatric population from the cohort of the unvaccinated. It is interesting that once I demonstrated this, you became silent about instead of saying "oops, OK, you are right; the article I posted is misleading."

Not to forget, it's not far-fetched that the people who fail the vaccines may end up faring a bit worse, because the sheer fact that they have failed the vaccines indicate that they may be people with a particularly weak immune system (due to chemotherapy, transplant treatments, auto-immune disease treatments, very old age) so while proportionally LESS numerous than the unvaccinated (unlike what your article pretends), they may be a pre-selected (biased, statistically speaking) population subject to worse outcome when/if they do catch the virus.

Like I said, for a true comparison you'd have to pair two groups of people with similar age, healthcare conditions, gender, ethnic background, etc, given that being older, having co-morbidities, being a man, and being a minority are all factors that have been shown to worsen the prognosis. So maybe the numbers you posted are just in function of a more fragile population that failed the vaccines.

 

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say. The 0.009% only refers to Delta, whereas the 0.016% includes both. I don't see how you would be able to compare them.

I'm sorry, I'm having some difficulty following your reasoning. You'll have to be clearer and state the obvious.

 

No, it doesn't include both. I'm just plotting the number of cases of Delta in YOUR article to the TOTAL number of vaccinated and unvaccinated people in England. Like I said, you need to look at the denominator. By now, there are fewer unvaccinated people in England than vaccinated, which reverses the advantage your biased numbers seemed to provide. So the unvaccinated ones who caught the disease came out of a smaller pool of people so the percentage was actually bigger, not smaller as your article tried to depict.

 

SCIENCE: “[Seventy-eight percent] of hospitalizations due to COVID are Obese and Overweight people. Is there an underlying problem that perhaps we have not given enough attention to?”

"There’s no graft money to be made in making people healthy and fit. If there were, the entire system wouldn’t be organized around the reverse."

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/471761/

Do they support withholding benefits from fat people?

 

Hmm, most interesting.
Seems like these particular people may be having another problem which impairs their breathing.
Having wads of fat press down against your lungs certainly isn't going to help lung capacity when you have a respiratory virus.

I don't want to make fun of these people, but these are people who typically are already out of breath when they try to move faster than walking pace.

 

Agreed. The issue isn't them, it's the US Left-Taliban wanting to punish those who adopt a stance/belief they disagree with, by withholding benefits, increasing prices, restricting access and similar acts of illegitimate coercion.

 

And it's not even just that.

Obesity and Covid-19: there are some hints that obesity may be *the* biggest risk factor for a severe case of Covid-19, maybe even more than old age. Say, you have an elderly citizen who is in great shape, lean, and still with reasonable muscle mass. That person may have less of a risk of dying from Covid-19 than a much younger but morbidly obese person.

For various reasons. One, pulmonary function is worse for the obese due to the abdominal mass pushing up the diaphragm and reducing the available volume for the lungs, as well as conditions such as sleep apnea, very common among the obese, resulting in chronic pulmonary hypertension and diminished pulmonary capacity. Two, other risk factors for severe Covid-19 are closely associated with obesity, such as diabetes and hypertension. Three, the obese have a weaker immune system. Four, the obese are more prone to inflammatory syndromes and will be more likely to develop cytokine storms.

OK, so, from this, it is evident that if the obese are more prone to severe cases of Covid-19, they remain infectious for longer, and they remain sick for longer. The former increases their role in the contagion, and the latter increases the odds that they will breed SARS-CoV-2 variants (mutations occur more, the longer the virus lingers in someone's system especially if the host's immune system is not that great at clearing the virus).

So, the obese *are* indeed more dangerous to themselves and also to others regarding Covid-19, than people who are fit.

 

Should we force people to lose weight so they don't spread the disease as much?

 

And for you, if it doesn't match your preconceived beliefs, it can't be true?

 

No. And before you try to make it another one of your anti-vaxx arguments, I've said many times that I'm not for vaccine mandates either, so, see if you throw your arrows at the right target, for a change.