Homosexuality is a Mental Disorder

Last I checked America is a free country where the minority has protection from the majority. Perhaps a "Mob Rules" state is what you desire... until society changes and you become the minority, then the mob sets its sights on you. In our not so distant past, Black men and women were considered less than human.

Your argument seems centered on normal... and in that basic light, to be gay is not the social norm... so what? Is it against the law to be gay? No, then who cares?

I agree with Stagnant.

 

There's no advantage to many things we do, what's your point? I think we have more important concerns to worry about fixing and changing.

 

Sure, you can interpret it that way or you can look at it in context and see that it was you that brought up religion. It is not that I want religion to make the diagnosis. Let me repeat myself with a quote from the same post that you left off:

 

Hurray for the Red, White and Blue. Only this is not about minorities and majorities. This is about properly treating a mental disorder.

 

Unnatural and abnormal are not sufficient criteria of mental disorder.... They are usually PART of what it means to be a mental disorder, but they are not alone sufficient.

Remember, the PURPOSE of classifying something as a mental disorder is to establish CLINICAL SIGNIFICANCE. It is not just about what is normal/abnormal, natural or unnatural. No, the PURPOSE of classifying something as a mental disorder is to establish that something NEEDS TO BE TREATED, because there is CLINICALLY SIGNIFICANT hardship brought to the individual by it. Just being different or abnormal does not mean you are not well adjusted, happy, able to work, have friends and generally function in society. Don't we have much bigger concerns about clinically significant problems that actually cause distress and death on a broad scale?

If you want to discuss this, you must first establish what it means to be a "mental disorder" and why we classify something that way in the first place. Just being abnormal or unnatural carry no clinical significance that dictates a need for treatment and thus a place in the clinical DSM.

 

Wow, talk about misquoting. Okay, never said the above so nothing to recant. But let me tell you, I derive my opinion strickly from a scientific point of view. However, that is not to say that ethics and morality does not play a part in what is going on here. Bigotry regarding many religious views against homosexuality is one of the driving forces for the attempt to normalize and gain acceptance of immoral behavior.

Being gay, and being left handed is not a valid comparison.
I am left handed. Being left handed is not an abnormality. Statistically speaking, it is not the norm, so it could be considered a statistical minority, but it does not lead to abnormal behavior.
Being gay is both a statistical minority and it does lead to abnormal behavior.
I have stated nothing but facts throughout this thread. The facts are incontravertable and irrefutable. I would hold off on that victory dance just yet.

 

That is all well and good JeffLV. Who decides how to define a "CLINICALLY SIGNIFICANT hardship"? Who made up this rule? Personally, I just go with a little common sense. When it comes to sexual attractions, we are designed to mate with the opposite sex. If you are attracted to someone of the same sex you are doing it wrong. You would have to agree that people would be better off if they were of this inclination. Therefore, it is a clinically significant hardship on those that suffer from homosexuality. They will never feel the joy of having children that are a genetic union of a them and their spouse, of raising those children in a normal family with a mother and a father.

 

Other than to note that it's sheer lunacy on its face, not much.

Similarly, one could no doubt provide plenty of data showing cannibalism to be a "normal variation", which would be every bit as pointless - except, of course, to apologists for cannibalism, had society devolved sufficiently to encourage them to raise world consciousness about the stigmatization under which they suffer.

 

It kinda describes the rule of thumb that divides the line between things that are different vs things that are significant and in need of treatment. Every individual is unique and different in their own way, but that doesn't mean that there is any clinical necessity to make everyone identical. We all adjust to our own personal situation, and where we are unable to, there is a case to be made that a mental or physical disorder is present.

For example, I will agree with you that if someone WISHES to raise a family of their own in the normal, traditional sense, being attracted to the opposite sex and producing children together, that there is a problem here, and it would be wonderful if it could be treated. But generally speaking, gays can and are perfectly happy and adjusted to their own situation, and there are relatively accessible alternatives if they wish to raise a child... even their own biological child... so there is no necessity for clinical treatment.

Well by that standard, anybody (gay or straight) that chooses not to have children must be mentally disordered, because obviously there is something wrong with them that is preventing them from feeling the joy of having children that are a genetic union of them and their spouse. That makes an whole lot of people mentally disordered, obviously a much bigger problem than homosexuality itself.

Other than that, what makes it you that decides what should make others feel happy and well adjusted? Your notion of what's "normal" does not constitute clinical significance, and even if you think they would be better off if gays were straight... don't you think the world has much bigger problems to worry about? There are hundreds, THOUSANDS of physical and mental diseases that cause significantly more distress, limiting the very ability to function in day-to-day life... and you're worried about this? Honestly, what drives your obsession?

 

Yes but my point was that religion did drive the old diagnosis because, at the time, religion dictated the terms of medicine (which you seem to applaud).

I left off the rest because it was purely your own personal opinion (in a thread disproportionately scattered with exactly that and little else) , I think I know what your opinion is without you having to spell it out but more to the point, why should I care?

I think my original science/religion observation was spot on, after all: you confirmed it!

 

Nope, it's not!

In the other hand, homophobia is a . . .phobia. . .which is a mental disorder!

 

Please don't offend our lesbian sisters by using archaic expressions like "rule of thumb".

I feel sorry for the child who has to be raised without a mother or a father so that a homosexual couple can play family.

Wrong. Being childless is not a mental disorder. I thought we were talking about "CLINICALLY SIGNIFICANT hardships". I really don't feel the need to the rest of the crap you're spouting except to say that don't try to turn this on me. I could ask you why do you read and respond to my posts? Are you obsessed?

 

Um, wrong, no I didn't, blah blah blah...

Can talking to you be more pointless?

 

It's only pointless because you refuse to debate on anyone's terms but your own (which you change to suit your mood and which ever corner you've been backed into).

You did confirm that you wished religion still had a hold on medical science and here's the proof once again in your own words:

Me:

You:

Confirming my contention that that's the way it was and your belief that that's the way it should have remained.

Case closed.

 

Boring...asked and answered. Incorrect assuption. Misleading statements. Is that all you got?

 

Wrong- the comparison was quite valid. For very long time, society believed in correcting left handed people. They were stigmatized and told they were behaving in a manner that was wrong and harmful to them, as it would affect their ability to function in society since everything was oriented to right handed people- the majority.

Being gay may be a statistical minority, but it does not lead to abnormal behavior. It's perfectly normal for gay people to be attracted to and fall in love with members of their gender because well, they're homosexual. Just like it's normal for left handed people to primarily use their left hands because they're left handed. Homosexuality exists throughout the animal kingdom and even in insects. That is an undeniable fact. You don't have to like that, but reality does not require your approval.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

 

It's funny because the kind of people who believe this garbage where the exact same kind who used to think that women having orgasms was unnatural and indecent.

 

Well I'm directly quoting you and providing plenty of context. In fact if anybody's interested they can read the whole thread in full here to prove I have nothing to hide:

http://www.politicalforum.com/gay-lesbian-rights/267277-i-have-gay-marriage-question.html

So, that being the case, you must find yourself "boring, incorrect and misleading" because "what I got" is exactly what you gave.

 

Then why is being gay a mental disorder because of the hardship of not having kids? People choose to do this all the time, gay or straight. And even many of those who DO have kids had no intention of it hapening.

So, you've got nothing, got it.

I argue for ideas that effect my very wellbeing and the wellbeing of stigmatized gay youth across the nation. I consider that a worthy enough cause. You're arguing for what, the hardship of those gay being unable to make the sort of family structure they don't want to begin with? Somehow I doubt that's your motivation, but I don't think you've established any significant harm that you see that is worthy of concern. I, however, find opinions such as yours to be quite harmful to the self-esteem of gay youth and the way we stigmatize them as a society.

 

Science has nothing to do with ethics and morality. At best, ethics and morality can derive factual information from science. That's the best it can do.

Wow, are you for real? Like, really? "We want gays to be accepted because it hurts religion!"? I don't even really know what to say to that. I mean, I didn't know you were able to read minds. Did you know that even among religious people, acceptance for homosexuality is on the rise? No, here, lemme help you draw the right line in your head. "We don't want gays to be accepted because the bible says so". I mean, of all the blatantly stupid statements... That's quite the one.

Then you've changed your definition of abnormal, and you're going to have to state how you define it. Because if so, the dichotomy you used earlier (something is either normal or abnormal) does not work. You're either abnormal by being left-handed (simply by being not the norm), or you're simply "not normal" without necessarily being abnormal, and you'll have to explain why homosexuality is abnormal.

You write with your left hand. That's abnormal behavior right there!

Hun, you got nothing. Your "facts" are hollow and pointless. Let's see... You've tried to use semantic tricks to redefine homosexuality as abnormal, you've thrown incredibly weak, virtually non-existent evidence out there that the APA and assorted bodies stopped calling homosexuality a disease because of political pressure (rather than a re-evaluation showing that they had no reason to call it that in the first place), and have offered no evidence that homosexuality is actually a mental illness. None. Zip. Bupkiss.

Well don't, because all but one (extremely flawed) study shows that children raised by homosexual couples do just as well as, if not better than, children raised by heterosexual couples! So you can rest easy in that regards.

Because we have a thing here about people lying or being incredibly wrong - we don't like it, and we strive to correct it when present.

 

.............

 

It's best for gays/lesbians to be celibate even if orientation doesn't change. AIDS is the worst thing that can happen from homosexual behaviors. Homosexuals & women who do anal will get 'gay bowel syndrome.' Elton John wears diapers possibly because of 'gay bowel' syndrome. With any Venereal Disease (VD) be it straight or gay & with AIDS, will repeat that if a person's going to be promiscuous & not use condoms, then I don't sympathize with them if they get VD, AIDS, because they knew the risks but still chose to take them. & if a person knows he has AIDS but still continues to be promiscuous w/o even informing the other person he has the disease, then he should go to prison for a crime.

Childhood sex abuse especially homosexual rape is a major cause of gay behaviors because boys who are homosexually raped are more likely to do gay behaviors in adulthood. Incidentally Elton John was a drug junky. I've never heard a straight person blame childhood sex abuse for reason a man is married to a woman & has kids with her but I've heard some gays & lesbians blame bad things such as childhood sex abuse. I know it's repeating but there's nothing much new we can say as it's repeat. It's right to be bigoted against gay/lesbian sexual behaviors & transexuality just as it's right to be bigoted against drug junkyism.

 

Being left handed does not lead to abnormal mental behavior. Being homosexual does. Comparing human behavior to any or all other species is likewise an invalid comparison. Human are highly developed intelectually, not so much for insects. Animals do not fall in love. So to say that makes gay people perfectly normal is incorrect logically. They are not valid comparisons either.

There is nothing normal about a man being attracted to a man. A man cannot mate with a man. There is something wrong with his brain that needs to be fixed. For some it may be physiological, for others it may be a psychological defect, but there is no debate that there is something wrong in the brain of someone who is homosexual.

- - - Updated - - -

It's funny because I would be an exception to that made up rule...next.

 

Writing, whether you do it with your left or right hand is not abnormal behavior. When was the last time you saw a left-handed pride parade in San Francisco? I am not calling homosexuality a disease, it is a mental illness. There are conflicting studies regarding children raised by homosexuals. But the important thing is that there is no civil rights for children to be raised in a normal household. Perhaps there should be.

 

And that pretty much says it all. It is all about hurting gay peoples feelings. Political correctness. We should spend more time and money treating homosexuality and finding cures rather than accomidating them so as not to hurt their feelings.