How could you kill your own baby ?

It is rediculous to suggest that they teach that a human cell is a living human in medical school in general. Medical school is not about defining what is classified as a human and what is not. What is a fact is that they certainly do not teach this in relevent fields of Biology and since it is from Biology that any other discipline (including medicine) takes its marching orders in terms of classification.

That said, I have never seen you show that medical school does teach this and certainly no "why" or rational behind this medical shool conclusion has been given.

As far as the living part. There is no coroner in the world that classifies a human as living without significant brain function never mind entities such as a zygote that not even have a brain or heart. This kind of shows the absurdity of your claim as it would put the school of medicine in contradiction with itself.

Science in general does not state that life starts at conceception and you have been shown this so many times it hurts so stop ignoring reality.

Regardless - the beginning of a process that will result in the creation of a living human is not a human and you have never been able to contest this fact.

Every heart started out as a single heart cell, but a heart cell is not a heart. What part of this is so complicated to understand ?

 

Do you ever wonder about who an aborted fetus might have turned into? I'm talking about the person the fetus would have become.

What if the fetus is the flesh of your flesh and the blood of your blood? Do you ever wonder who your aborted fetus would have become? Maybe a great woman or man. We'll never know because the life of your own flesh and blood was cut short.

I'm curious...do you think about this subject? If you're not curious then never mind.

 

A similar argument could be made about age. Seems to me that if it has more years ahead of it, it would suggest it might be MORE valuable. The woman has already lived out much of her years.

Is this thread about zygotes and blastocytes? No, it is about unborn BABIES.

Yes you are! The woman is forcing her opinion onto her unborn child, and the U.S. supreme court forced it's opinion onto the states, telling them they could not stop a woman from forcing her opinion onto her child.

Yes, you are. See post #101 in this thread:
http://www.politicalforum.com/abortion/280416-how-could-you-kill-your-own-baby-11.html

 

Having never gone through an abortion (even as the male partner) I can't say it has ever crossed my mind, but there again I am not one to worry about what might have been.

 

Abortion is one of the reasons I actually exist today. My mom was raped at the age of 14 and she was impregnated by her attacker. She was prepared to commit suicide but her sister helped her obtain an abortion and my mom found the will to live. If my mom had not had an abortion then my brothers and I would most likely not exist today and she would probably be dead.

So guess what? There are a lot of what-ifs surrounding these situations and we can speculate on them all we like...what if your parents decided NOT to have sex the day you were conceived? What if that other sperm made it to the egg first? What if your mom had decided to abort you? What if she miscarried you? What if all the people who died in war were still alive and went on to live and change the course of history? Gee, what if Hitler's mother decided to have an abortion when she was pregnant with him? Yes, there are a lot of 'what ifs' we can speculate on but it doesn't change the reality we live in right now and what's happening right now.

 

Sounds like a failure of imagination.

 

It was mouse that brought it up. Your beef is with her. Apparently there are some (misguided as they may be) that think zygotes an blastocysts should be classified as unborn babies.

When is it that you think a fetus qualifies as a Baby ?

 

Not in the slightest curious...


It isn't what it isn't.

 

Most pregnancies and most abortions are not the result of rape, incest or nonconsensual sex. Your mother didn't terminate her pregnancy as a method of contraception did she? So my question is not directed to people like your mother. I apologize for any confusion or inconvenience based on the way my question was phrased.

 

Thank you for that reasonable, intelligent, logical post......


.... because it is so reasonable, intelligent, and logical, SOME won't get it..... and will rant on...and on.....and on....

 

That's a valid answer. I recognize it as such because I realize there are different levels of consciousness among the members of PF.

 

No one knows for sure. So if one is to err which side does one err on?

 

These pro-choicers in this forum support abortion long after the fetus looks like a baby.

It starts resembling a baby at 8 weeks. It takes on the likeness of a baby at 12-16 weeks. It looks exactly like a baby at 18 weeks. It has a chance of long term survival outside the womb at 22 weeks. Pro-choicers want to abort it at 24 weeks, some of them much later than that.

You're forgetting, it's all about the woman! No one else matters. Many pro-choicers will openly admit this.
Most pro-abortion choicers are a bunch of women-worshipping feminists. The pro-abort position becomes much easier to understand after one realizes this.

 

As the fetus cannot have an opinion and has no idea even to what an opinion is how is a woman forcing her opinion.
Prior to 1973 most, if not all states, were turning a blind eye to abortions .. and even today the majority of americans want abortion to remain legal so how is that forcing it onto others, pro-lifers are a minority and as the USA is a democratic republic I'm afraid laws are made to reflect the majority opinion... you want it to change then get enough people to vote for a government that will change it .. good luck with that.
Pro-lifers are the only ones who are trying to force their minority opinion onto the majority, that is not a democracy.

Am I, tell me how many pro-choicers do you know who are lobbying government to extend abortion to cover the whole period of the pregnancy, how many pro-choicers are there parading in the streets with banners telling others that they are immoral, murderers or nazi's .. how many pro-choicers have killed pro-life people because of their beliefs.
Abortion has never been fully illegal in the USA, there have always been exceptions for medical risk to the woman, for rape and for incest .. try actually finding out the history of abortion.
This flawed campaign to make all abortion illegal is unprecedented in American history.

 

My mother terminated her pregnancy at the time because she was a 14 year old girl who had been violently, sexually assaulted by an adult man.

But it still fits your what-if speculations. If my mom chose not to abort and didn't commit suicide like she had been planning then would I still be here today? Would she have raised her rapist's baby? Would she have met my dad? Would my dad have married a woman with a child at their age (18-20)? Would she have had my brother and I and then left my father and met my step-father and had my youngest brother?

These are all what-ifs that will never be answered because we cannot go back in time change the course of history and see what would have happened.

 

No my imagination is pretty good ( I am a published poet) I just can't see the point in wondering "what if", I mean I could just as easily say what if that aborted fetus had turned out to be a mass murderer, or a rapist or a dictator murdering thousands of people.

Its easy to sit and look through rose tinted glasses at "what ifs", reality rarely lives up to dreams.

 

Yes...who knows, right? But the pro-abort stance is...abortion is ok for population control, to kill a deformed or sick child in the womb, kill a child that might not get adopted, kill cause the mother could not possibly take care of it,...kill kill...for any reason. The entire position is based on "what if'.
Why is it so bad to just give LIFE...? How can someone live a life full of "what if's"? I mean what if you get in a car that gets in an accident tonight? So guess you shouldn't get in a car. The plane might go down...so don't fly. And doctors make mistakes so....don't get any procedures done...cause "what if"?

The questions you ask....seem self serving. Your saying really I am glad she aborted cause I wouldn't be here if she had not. Sorta like a kid that says..gee I am glad my sister died or I would not have gotten as much attention. What if?

What might have happened had she had your sister? You might have a sister today.

My kids frequently talk and guess whether or not I would have had a girl or boy. They don't look at it like...they would not have been born. Why do that?

 

Not true. Today liberal judges make laws...and they decide based on their bias. California and a few other states as of late....voted DOWN SAME SEX MARRIAGE. The people spoke...and what good did it do? Nothing...as their vote was overturned. So don't presume to know what the majority population feels and how they would vote. State by state abortion laws are toughening...why? If people were so hung-ho about abortion being legal and the laws not changing...why don't we see marches and more opposition.

You said this....Pro-lifers are the only ones who are trying to force their minority opinion onto the majority, that is not a democracy."

Would you say the majority of Americans want gay marriage? Even the liberal state of California turned it down. At least they got to vote. Abortion has never been put to Americans to vote on. Unless this was put to a nationwide vote...we will never know. So you can't say with proof...a few polls do not represent the nation.

You ask a good question. Why arent pro-choicers standing up for all women. You want abortion to be legal for rape...and that happens in less than 1% of all cases. So it would not matter how many women might take the late term abortion option...it should not matter. This is about rights, the ability to choose....for THEMSELVES. And your position is anti-women, choice. Why aren't you doing more to make it legal? Why should their be restrictions?

 

You're wrong. The entire pro-choice position is based on freedom of the individual, freedom to make your own medical choices about your own body, the freedom to decide what happens to you and your future without the interference of others or the government. You will always be wrong in what you declare we stand for, always.

It isn't bad to "give life" and people do it every single day. Albert is the one who brought up the what-if issue, so I responded in kind. What-ifs don't really matter and will never change reality.

I didn't say I was glad about it and quite frankly my mother could have very well have aborted me next if she chose to. I wouldn't exist to care if she had, we wouldn't be having this conversation either. If she didn't abort after her rape and she committed suicide I wouldn't exist then either. I am here and owe my existence to my mother's course of actions and choices throughout her life. Still people behave as if abortion is the worst thing in the world and yet it gives people the opportunity to take control of their lives such as in my mother's situation she took control over a situation that she had no control over.

Perhaps she would have been better off aborting me and leaving my father at the time as well, he was very abusive towards her, but she chose not to and here we are now.

Chances are had my mom had the rapist's baby I wouldn't even exist to know him/her. I believe it would have completely changed the course of history and her choices. But she made her choice, all of our parents did and those of us who exist here and today exist to continue making choices.

Choosing not to abort probably would have changed the entire course of your history and you probably wouldn't have the kids you have today, they'd be different people. You'd have conceived at different times and things would have changed entirely. Perhaps your current kids owe their existence to the choices you made in the past.

But like I already said, does it matter? All the what-ifs and wishful thinking, especially since we'll never know right?

 

Duh, it was Albert Di Salvo who proposed the "what if" stuff.......as YOU are doing.......and the subject is what if you hadn't beeen born not what if everything else....

 

I stand corrected....of course they do. You could not find three that would agree on when viability kicks in and when they want to DENY WOMEN CHOICE.

Looks should not matter....life is life. For them its not all about the women...or they would not be against late term abortion. They are all about themselves and their bias as to what should happen. They say we have no right to want abortion legal..because we would be forcing women to abide by our morality. AND THEN THEY TURN AROUND AND SAY WOMEN CAN'T ABORT..because it looks more like a baby...and they think it should live. Sweet of them isn't it? Anti-woman sweet.

 

LMAO..."rant on...and on.....and on."

I do this? What do you do? LMAO

 

This is what I got.....liberal judges proabortgaymarriagestate bystaegunghoNo majority butmymajorityCaliforniawickedRapedoesn'tmatterscrewrapevictimsrightsabilityto chooseanti-womenwhywahwah....

 

Well it should not have crossed your mind because the pro-choice position makes you nothing. The father is nothing to be considered.

 

I never mentioned anyone's name....are you attacking me? Saying I said things I didn't?????


Have you ever considered that everything is NOT about you? There ARE other people in the world.