How many Lies do ProVaxers need to hear before they admit the Vax is a hoax?

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by Kokomojojo, Mar 15, 2024.

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  1. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sadly the epidemiology experts were dishonest which was responsible for their dishonest recommendations that the task force issued.

    What fine line did Trump make them walk? What was Trump wrong about? He followed the advice of the epidemiology experts on the covid task force. How does that make Trump wrong except in the sense that he implemented the dishonest advice of the experts in the covid guidelines?
     
  2. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    we know, Trump picks the best people.... but at the end of the day, Trump was the decider and decided.... badly, but he decided
     
  3. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump thought he picked honest experts who were leaders in the HIV/AIDS pandemic. They were not honest. Had they been honest an entire different set of guidelines would have been released. At the end of the day the dishonesty of Birx and Fauci are to blame for the economic lockdown policies enacted in the US.
     
  4. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump only cared about himself, he saw Covid as a chance to force people to watch him daily in the task force, pretty much all he cared about
     
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  5. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Birx and Fauci's dishonesty killed people. The Task Force was not televised daily.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2024
  6. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yes, the Trump admins dishonesty killed people.
     
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  7. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The deaths were the direct result of Fauci and Birx's dishonesty. Many governors acted to extend the 30 day lockdown on the recommendations of Fauci and Birx. Many died as a result.
     
  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yes, the Trump admins dishonesty killed people.

    Trump released his reopen plan guidelines too, one no State has yet met...

    A big problem with Trump is he can never admit he made a mistake and learn from them...
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2024
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  9. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Have Birx and Fauci admitted that they were dishonest and learned to tell the truth??

    And the left continues to blame Trump whilst it is clear that the blame clearly rests on the dishonest duo of Birx and Fauci. Birx admits that she lied. Trump followed the advice of the experts who made their reputations on their recommendations with regard to HIV & AIDS. Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton, and GW Bush followed Fauci's recommendations just as Trump did. Why do you blame Trump for doing the same?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9795384/#:~:text=Q: You went,advice and guidance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2024
  10. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    and the right continues to pretend Trump handled the Covid crisis perfectly, and it's everyone else's fault
     
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  11. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump acted as the previous Presidents did. He followed the recommendations of the experts. He can’t be blamed for that.
     
  12. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    I think I'm driven too much by common sense. I am not afraid of a virus with a >99% survival rate, thus I don't take flu shots either.

    I understand that you and many friends and family were scared silly, and that fear diminishes or eliminates critical thinking completely, and I do understand the herd mentality dynamics.

    I use common sense and critical thinking, PLUS I'm much more of a loner than you. I avoid following the herd.
     
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  13. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you are under the age of 65, in d good health, and have none of the CDC listed preconditions you are at extremely low risk to the effects of the covid virus and have no need to expose yourself to the risks of vaccination.
     
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  14. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Banned

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    Well I've been vaccinated twice and had Covid twice so I guess I have no room to complain
     
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  15. Eddie Haskell Jr

    Eddie Haskell Jr Newly Registered

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    Many people simply misunderstood or misheard what was being told to them. I never once heard or thought that masks and vax would outright 'prevent' the spread. Reduce, yes. Prevent, no.
     
  16. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have been vaccinated twice and boosted once. Never had covid. I take zinc and vitamin D daily. I am 75.
     
  17. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    what expert told him to lie to the people and play it down?
     
  18. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Birx and Fauci dishonestly claimed a 30 day lockdown was required.
     
  19. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    lol, well I've glad you have good self-esteem, but none of your hypotheses of me are correct. I was never personally afraid of it, being not old or asthmatic or the equivalent. I'm definitely a loner. There is no such thing as common sense. It's a phrase people who don't have much sense often use to support their notion that what seems obvious to them must be true. My views are always informed by critical thinking and evidence far more than prevailing views. What the "herd" believes does not determine what is true or false. I wish I had a better understanding of how people such as yourself fall prey to conspiracy theories, though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2024
  20. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    I recall during the pandemic I calculated risks for adolescents (not in a controlled study, just ecologically), a group less likely to benefit from vaccination and more likely to see complications, but even for them it was something like 100 times safer to get vaccinated. It was trading a 1 in 10,000 risk of death for 1 in 1 million. Most likely fine either way. Today the odds of death from the virus are lower, and most people have been exposed anyway, so now the benefits for such a group are likely a wash. But it's not like the vaccination is a grave risk - it's just now there's very little benefit for low risk groups.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2024
  21. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If kids are healthy and have none of the CDC preconditions they are at ~ zero risk. Sweden never closed their K - 8 schools and had zero deaths of kids. Although there may have tragically been one in 2021 but no information on preconditions. Many nations will not allow kids under 12 to be vaccinated.
     
  22. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    "How many Lies do ProVaxers need to hear before they admit the Vax is a hoax?"

    No amount of lies will convince me that scientifically developed and proven vaccines are a hoax.
     
  23. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    Not zero, but pretty low: Sweden: coronavirus deaths by age groups 2023 | Statista

    About 20 deaths under 9. Probably they did have pre-existing conditions. Unsure if Sweden is the best test case, though, as their vaccine recommendations for children was pretty volatile and they're small. Reasonable would be recommended before, but no longer recommended after the pandemic.

    As for vaccine risk in young people, not so much. Large study of England, data range 2020-2022: Risk of death following COVID-19 vaccination or positive SARS-CoV-2 test in young people in England - PMC (nih.gov)

    Risk of death given positive covid test: It's still close to 1/10,000 here, but the age range is 12-29 "In people aged 12-29 with a positive SARS-CoV-2 test, the increased risk of all-cause registered death in the following twelve weeks corresponded to 1 additional death for every 11,936 (95% CI 10,373, 14,862)..."... This would not include some asymptomatic cases, though.

    Risk of death from vaccination - not increased overall*: "In the twelve weeks post-vaccination compared with subsequent periods, there were no significant increases in the incidence of any mortality outcome for all vaccine doses combined across each individual week or all twelve weeks combined (all-cause registered death: incidence rate ratio, IRR, 0.88, 95% confidence interval, CI, 0.80, 0.97; cardiac registered death: IRR 1.11, 95% CI 0.87, 1.42; all-cause hospital death: IRR 0.89, 95% CI 0.77, 1.04) (Fig. 1a). " It says no increased death, but I am doubtful it is sufficiently powered to detect 1 in a million, which I calculated previously but based upon all ages.

    *There was an increase in one group for non-mRNA vaccines. These vaccines were discontinued in England.

    "Whilst COVID-19 vaccination has been linked to an increased risk of myocarditis and other cardiac events in young people, we found no evidence of substantially increased mortality risk, either due to cardiac events or overall, from mRNA vaccines, which suggest that cases of myocarditis or myopericarditis due to mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are unlikely to be fatal. We do, however, find evidence of an increased risk of cardiac death after a first dose of a non mRNA vaccine among females. It should also be noted that non mRNA vaccines are no longer used in the UK vaccination programme28. This provides reassurance that mRNA vaccines pose minimal risk of increased mortality in the first twelve weeks post-vaccination in young individuals."
     
  24. DarkDaimon

    DarkDaimon Well-Known Member

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    You know, if anti-vaxxers were really serious about how dangerous vaccines are, they would be protesting against rabies vaccines. Go ahead guys, if you ever get bitten by a rabid animal, and the doctor wants to give you the rabies vaccine, tell the doctor, "No thanks, I don't believe in vaccines, I'll just cure the most deadly disease known to man with some essential oils and a multi-vitamin with magnesium". Sure rabies has a 99.99999% fatality rate, but you know that the claimed success rate of the post-exposure vaccine of 100% has to be B.S., perpetuated by Big Pharma© to make more money!
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2024
  25. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If a child has one or more of the preconditions then their parents should have the option of vaccination. If kids are healthy IMO they should not be vaccinated but again that is the decision of the parents.

    There is too much evidence indicating elevated health risks after vaccination in healthy people under the age of 65 to ignore. Is there absolute proof in every case - no. But people rarely have absolute proof of anything in life. I won't be getting anymore covid vaccination shots or boosters.
     

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