How to ban guns without firing a single shot...

one of these days the gun banners will actually be honest as to why they want to ban legal gun ownership and stop pretending that harassing honest gun owners is going to stop criminals. One of these days, gun banners will actually admit the their schemes violate the constitution as well

 

Ah, Turtledude is making the classic argument that anti-gun advocates are all left-wingers, and therefore their stance is purely political rather than a genuine attempt to reduce violent crime. Well, let me tell you something, that's like saying everyone who eats vegetables is a health nut. It's a gross oversimplification!

Now, then, the idea that wanting gun control is a "left-wing" thing is a lazy stereotype. There are conservatives, libertarians, and even gun owners who support some form of gun control. Why? Because they've got something called nuance in their thinking. They understand that you can support the Second Amendment while also believing that maybe, just maybe, we should have some checks in place to prevent firearms from ending up in the wrong hands.

So this notion that anti-gun positions are not "honest attempts to reduce violent crime" is a load of bull. People advocate for gun control precisely because they're concerned about things like school shootings, domestic violence, and accidental deaths. You think they're doing it for fun? For political points? Nah, they're doing it because they don't want to see more headlines about kids getting shot.

And let's not forget, the United States has more guns than people and a gun homicide rate that's off the charts compared to other developed countries. But sure, let's pretend this is all some left-wing conspiracy to take away your toys.

So, to sum it up: Not all anti-gun advocates are left-wingers, and their concerns are rooted in very real, very tragic events. Reducing it to mere politics is intellectually lazy and dismissive of the complexities of the issue.

Well, one thing is certain. Reducing violent crime is definitely not a priority with the right. Their solution is to do nothing. What ideas are they putting forth in the house, lately? Nada. All they are concerned with is Hunter Biden. In Georgia, they want to impeach Fani Willis. In all the red states,. what are repub legislatures doing? Passing anti LGBT legislation, Anti Abortion legislation, Banning Books, on and on.

Repubs passed 400 book ban bills
https://theintercept.com/2023/08/23/school-censorship-bills-pen-america/

Repubs passed 417 anti-LGBT bills
https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/anti-lgbtq-plus-state-bill-rights-dg/index.html

Anti Abortion
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/19/politics/abortion-laws-red-states-republicans/index.html

Please don't lecture me about 'violent crime'. Every time there is a violent crime in a red state repubs do nothing Doing nothing is their motto.

 

Pointing to a document is not a counter argument.

You actually have to do some work and state your case, give citations, quotes, etc.

Apparently work escapes you.

 

There has to be a way to do it . I"m not a mental health professional, but doing nothing isn't the answer.

Due process is only an issue because of '2A', my idea was to repeal it so 'due process' wouldn't be an issue.

 

Thanks for admitting that you want to strip the rights away from your fellow American citizens.

That's a pretty Un-American position but at least you admit it

 

Another cop out.

You're getting pretty good at it.

Self-puffery is not an argument.

Vague generality, lacks substance.

I look for arguments to debate against which to test my own arguments and ideas.

Let me know when you have something to move the debate forward,

 

Heller gives the parameters for gun control. What items on the OP do you think exceed it?

Now that would be a merit worthy debate, not insinuations of 'fascism', a vacuous nonsubstantive charge which does not move the debate forward.

 

Empty accusations, not a foundation for debate..

How about actually debating the gun regulations proposed in the OP?

A good debate ;point would be to debate whether or not any of the items listed exceed the parameters outlined in Heller.

 

Contributing to the murder of children isn't a right, let alone very American, let alone human, at least you admit it.

 

You want to take guns away from people that don't use them to murder people or commit crimes. You want to strip law-abiding Americans of their rights.

I want them to do things like enforce the laws we already have like the ones that make it illegal to shoot people for no good reason.

 

That's extremely funny coming from you since you are always using the term fascist.

 

Several states, red and blue have red flag laws. Thus far not one of then have prevented a mass shooting. Though there have been several cases where they were applied inappropriately to confiscate some ones weapons, Not everything has to be a federal case.

 

It's easy work: the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. That's an irrefutable citation...lol

 

The irony. Right?...lol

 

there's enough red herrings in that post to turn the Mediterranean into another red sea. But thanks for proving my point-gun banners push gun bans because they don't like pro gun voters/politicians perceived views on abortion, the alphabet agenda etc. This whining about Hunter Biden is hilarious given the 4 year (and it continues today) attempt to undermine the Trump presidency that started before he was sworn in

 

why don't we start with 1) are they constitutional and 2) are they actually likely to decrease violent crime. the burden is on people like you to establish both

 

this is about guns-not woke prosecutors and judges letting criminals out on the streets again.

 

They aren't trying to reduce violent crime. That's a fact.

If that were the truth, they should be damned embarrassed at the results...lol

 

Legally purchased, then stolen and sold on the darknet.
That's one usual way to transform legal guns into murder weapons.

Suppose some lunatics stealing cars to kill people by driving over them.
Would you conclude from this that citizens should no longer be allowed to have cars?
I don't think so.

Cars, firearms and much more serve a good cause. Abuse is unfortunately always possible.

 

Maybe I wasn't clear. I meant to say that the crime was committed by the person who legally purchased the gun.

However, my MAIN point is that crimes committed with guns that were stolen or illegally purchased would also be reduced by reducing the number of guns in circulation.

No. Because that would be a dumb thing to conclude. And it's addressed on the OP and particularly under "Irrelevant Argument 2".

 

Owning guns isn't "contributing to the murder of children".

The refusal of prosecutors to punish murderers and the refusal of lawmakers to make laws that keep murderers off the street, contribute to the murder of children.

 

which-like all of your schemes-would impact honest people 15-25 times more than criminals. Using Occam's razor, we have to assume that is your real goal.

it's akin to a quack doctor prescribing a cancer treatment that kills 90% of the healthy cells in an organ and only 5-10% of the malignant cells. Only two conclusions are possible-either the doctor is incredibly incompetent or his real goal is killing the patient. Your goal is to kill lawful gun use and ownership in the USA while pretending it's to stop crime

 

and the real sad thing is that the "murder of children" is not what is motivated these leftwing gun banning advocates. If they really cared about that , they wouldn't be spending so much time on stuff that is worthless in saving children's lives while opposing the enforcement of laws that would actually make a difference

 

It would be an inconvenience, wouldn't it?

I see that's the argument you are left with. That it's "inconvenient". As I said before, it certainly might inconvenience honest people who are accustomed to jogging over to the corner gun shop and walking out with the meanest looking military-style weapon "du jour". Just like wearing a seat belt is also "inconvenient" for excellent drivers who are unlikely to ever be in an accident.

I do have to admit that this "it's an inconvenience" argument is way better than the 2nd A nonsense that you couldn't defend in the threads about THAT topic. I would also stick to that, if I were you. However, there is not much more to be said about it, now that I have agreed with you that it WOULD be "inconvenient".

Uuuuhhh... dude. You didn't do too well in the field in which you claim to be an expert and in which I have no formal studies. I would advice against you stepping into the field in which the opposite is true.

My "real" goal is stated on the OP. If you can't respond to that, I'm afraid there is not much more you can contribute to this thread.

Any "hidden" goals that you perceive might be an interesting topic if you think they are possible. It would be interesting to see how my "ideal goals" which I don't think can be accomplished, you somehow have concluded that they can. But that would topic for a different thread.

 

Your side doesn't want to help people. On guns they are a do nothing party

On things like health care, gun control, minimum wage, issues that matter, they are awol.

Here's what the right's attention is focused on:

Repubs passed 400 book ban bills
https://theintercept.com/2023/08/23/school-censorship-bills-pen-america/

Repubs passed 417 anti-LGBT bills
https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/anti-lgbtq-plus-state-bill-rights-dg/index.html

Anti Abortion
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/19/politics/abortion-laws-red-states-republicans/index.html

361 voter suppression Bills passed putting more hurdles between voter and the ballot process:
https://www.motherjones.com/politic...bills-have-already-been-introduced-this-year/

During the Republican debate Nikki Haley claimed Trump increased the national debt by $8 Trillion. She was right:
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/republican-debate-08-23-23/h_c73dacb4bdbb22151ff9c5a151dcf8e0

Republicans want to cut FBI funding by $1 billion undercutting their ability to put bad guys in jail.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/house/house-republicans-try-cutting-one-billion-fbi-funding

Historically speaking, Republican executive branch commits far more crimes than democrats