"I am a Zionist"

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Kokomojojo, Dec 28, 2020.

  1. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Religious Zionists were mainly observant Jews who supported Zionist efforts to build a Jewish state in the Land of Israel.

    Kook saw Zionism as a part of a divine scheme which would result in the resettlement of the Jewish people in its homeland. This would bring salvation ("Geula") to Jews, and then to the entire world. After world harmony is achieved by the refoundation of the Jewish homeland, the Messiah will come. Although this has not yet happened, Kook emphasized that it would take time, and that the ultimate redemption happens in stages, often not apparent while happening. In 1924, when Kook became the Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi of Palestine, he tried to reconcile Zionism with Orthodox Judaism.

    Joe Biden: "I am a Zionist".

    Biden in 2007 interview: I am a Zionist
    Barack Obama's new running mate praises Israel In 2007 interview with 'Shalom TV' Yitzhak Benhorin|Published: 08.23.08 , 18:15

    WASHINGTON – Senator Joe Biden, who was chosen by Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama to be his running mate in the upcoming US elections, has previously declared himself to be a Zionist. Calling Israel "the single greatest strength America has in the Middle East," he also revealed a Jewish connection in an interview last year.

    ”Secular Zionists may think they do it for political, national, or socialist reasons, but in fact – the actual reason for them coming to resettle in Israel is a religious Jewish spark ("Nitzotz") in their soul, planted by God. Without their knowledge, they are contributing to the divine scheme and actually committing a great Mitzvah.

    ”The role of religious Zionists is to help them to establish a Jewish state and turn the religious spark in them into a great light. They should show them that the real source of Zionism and the longed-for Zion is Judaism and teach them Torah with love and kindness. In the end, they will understand that the laws of Torah are the key to true harmony and a socialist state (not in the Marxist meaning) that will be a light for the nations and bring salvation to the world.”


    Shlomo Avineri explained the last part of Kook's answer: "... and the end of those pioneers, who scout into the blindness of secularism and atheism, but the treasured light inside them leads them into the path of salvation – their end is that from doing Mitzva without purpose, they will do Mitzva with a purpose." (page 222, 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Zionism

    [​IMG]


    VIDEO: Joe Biden tells ShalomTV ‘I am a Zionist’
    By Jewish Journal August 23, 2008

    In an April 2007 interview, Sen. Joe Biden (D-Del.) declares “I am a Zionist’ and discusses his support for Israel. https://jewishjournal.com/news/united-states/65458/


    The Jewish People Control America, and Americans Know It

    Ignored by the U.S. media, The Jewish Press reported on May 28 that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is seeking a huge increase in U.S. military aid.

    A few years ago, here’s what Sharon told Shimon Peres, former president and prime minister of Israel: “Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that ... I want to tell you something very clear: Don’t worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.“


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    Abraham Isaac Kook
    Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook (1865-1935)–considered the “father” of religious Zionism–succeeded where Alkalai and Kalischer failed in garnering support for religious Zionism. Kook published his first essay on Zionism while serving as rabbi in Boisk, Lithuania. In the essay, he argued that modern Jewish nationalism, even at its most secular, expresses the divinity within the Jewish soul and signifies the beginning of the messianic age.

    Clearly Israel is an american religious proxy puppet state.


    How will a practicing Zionist as commander and chief in control of america effect the rest of us who are no the same religion?

    I expect there will be several secular laws created in support of Zio-Jewish ideologies, starting with free speech as was done with germany.

    They lied about about the holocaust, why should we expect any better performance today?

     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
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  2. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think the Jewish state of affairs is even in the top 100 of important items to any administration except for maybe Carter who openly wanted to see Hitler's work completed.
     
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  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    That was a totally unsuportable and SERIOUSLY disgusting ad hom assault on Carter.

    Carter worked hard for peace and a two state solution divided by negotiated borders.

    Israel refusted, and has followed a consistent path of ethnic cleansing - property theft, driving people from their homes, stealing their water rights, ruling with foreign military law, working to destroy the economies of both West Bank and Gaza.

    With Gaza, they have been in active war against Gaza for over a decade while refusing to even talk. They refust trael rights, blocking students from attenting colleges outside of Gaza. Israel blocks EXPORT of goods besides blocking importts, slowing even needed medical supplies.

    So, you attack Carter with absolutely false claims when it is Israel that has pursued DECADES of humanitarian crimes against Palestine.

    Even with Bush, Israel demanded the right to continue stealing land owned by Palestinians DURING BORDER NEGOTIATIONS!!! The idea that Israel is acapable of good faith negotiation is just plain nonsense.
     
  4. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I forgot how peaceful Palestine is.

    lol
     
  5. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    I find the OP to be a bit confusing. At first, I read the Kook quote as somehow part of the Biden interview since there wasn't any divider or commentary between them.

    It seems to me that Biden has declared himself a Zionist in the secular sense (supporting Israel politically). The fact that a Rabbi who died in 1935 would have considered that a religious Jewish spark seems to me neither here nor there, it doesn't make it so.

    Many US presidents have been considered pro-Israel (among others Truman and Trump) and probably Zionist (although it probably depends on the exact definition, and at that point, it is possible that Biden doesn't qualify either). Judging only from the support of Israel, I don't see how it would be any different (of course, there may be details of Biden's policies that would be different, but they're not clear from the post, so I've not taken them into account).

    Of course, vast numbers of Americans (and others) are often or always represented by people of other religions (especially if we consider your definition of religion which can include anything strongly held, but also if you consider the more god-based definition). Not to say that the Israel question isn't important, but I agree with Spooky that there are probably areas which will affect most people more directly.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2020
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  6. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Our forefathers fought a bloody revolutionary war against Britain for reasons not NEARLY so serious as those faced by Palestinians at the hands of Israel.

    NO American would refuse to fight in those circumstances - especially after years of attempting peaceful solutions and reaching today, where Isreael refuses to talk in any form as they continue their war against Gaza and their humanitarian atrocities against West Bank.
     
  7. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fine, then let them fight and quit interfering or do you mean by fighting you already want Palestine to win?

    I am all for them going to war and putting an end to it one way or the other.
     
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  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I'm saying that there needs to be an end to Israel's humanitarian atrocity AND that Isreal needs to end its 15 years or more war on Gaza that continues to this very day.

    There is NO EXCUSE for continuing EITHER of these.

    And, humans don't just decide to give up representation, equal treatment under the law, freedom of movement, etc. - all of which Israel denies.

    We wrote a declaration of independence that we fought and died for.

    Those are fundamental principles we declared to apply to all human beings. That document is a statement of what WE believe applies.

    It's time we backed those principles.

    We don't stand for constant war, for taxation without representation, for changing borders through acts of war, the state theft of private property, state destruction of farms, blockade of trade, prevention of personal movement within ones country, rule by foreign occupation, theft of water rights, etc., etc., etc.

    In other words this is about OUR actions, too - not just those of Israel. WE are the ones who make Israel free to commit these crimes. The entire world hates what Israel is doing now and for decades.
     
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  9. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Those are our principles, not theirs.

    What in the world gives you the right to force others to believe in what you do?

    Isn't that why you fought the British and now you want to subjegate a people like they did?

    Wow
     
  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    OMG is that nutty.

    First, our US founding principles are PREDICATED on those being requirements for ALL HUMANS. Not ONCE did America ever sugget they were only requirements for humans who happened to live in North America, but not Canada and not Mexico and not Belieze and not Panama, etc. It is stated as rights required by EVERY HUMAN.

    Second, the British were fought because they DENIED those principles. And, that was a clear issue for well before the revolution. It was explained to Britain on a continuing basis for years - that British infringement of those human rights was not acceptable. It was carefully laid out in our declaration of independence that THOSE were the issues, not something else. The US stated that trade, defense, and other aspects not related to those declared principles were not the issue - that the US WANTED continued close relationship with Britain, but with the human rights that ALL humans require.

    If we had had those rights, there is NO evidence that we would have had a revolution. Maybe we would have split at some future time (as it's hard to imagine the US as part of the UK today - not even Canada is part of the UK). But, the reasons for the revolution are clearly laid out and explicitly stated to be rights required by ALL HUMANs.

    Have you even bothered to read the US Declaration of Independece?
     
  11. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So...... what about the slaves they owned?
     
  12. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your Christian Right went crazy when Carter suggested that the Palestinians also deserved some rights. Since then they have been working at spreading their message through the US, buying up seminaries to brainwash, getting themselves into your Justice system and Government. Not surprising that far right Christians will have such a hideous impression of him. It all comes with the training. Without them there amonst certainly would have been a two state solution a long time ago.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
  13. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think what he is suggesting is to stop subjugating a people.
     
  14. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is what he is attempting to do with Israel though.

    I don't think he sees that.

    Like I said, they should be allowed to work out their differences and then we will deal with what they come up with.
     
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  15. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How on earth can you say that?

    Me neither. The ones I see locked up who are having their land and resources stolen and have been enduring this for over 50 years or over 70 if you include the second class citizens of Israel, are the Palestinians.
    In reality what you are suggesting sounds like an invitation for genocide or ethnic cleansing. You must know the Palestinians have nothing to defend themselves with against a world class army.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
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  16. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Sorry dude. We declared our independence from England. We didn't take them over. We didn't tell them how to live. We told them how we are going to live. Odd that you would presume to think and choose for others when the very meaning of liberty is a personal matter.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
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  17. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well there was a French Law in the 20's which was supposed tp stop things being about 'Might is Right' which is what you are suggesting but obviously we had WW2 and killed tens of millions of people. That is why the UN was set up very much under the auspices of the US. Israel has not stuck with the rule of Law and has been able to do this due to the protection of the US Government. We were hoping to create a different world after WW2 but now we go back into a new dark age.
     
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  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Pointing out that our founders weren't perfect in their immediate execution (in several ways, not just one) does not dilute the power, the purpose, their belief in what they wrote.

    And, they absolutely DID see slavery as a problem with what they wrote.

    Ever since, the US has been a beacon for the rule of law and the principles they illuminated.

    We also fail the BIBLE today, and that is not an excuse for tearing down the Bible.
     
  19. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Many US presidents didnt declare themselves to be zionists however, the same group that perpetrated the holohoax crime and continue to force that same lie on america today!
     
  20. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    You aint seen nuttin yet, anyone thinking georgy was a bitch to live under wait till the lying zionists get full control over this country. It is their MO after all to subvert and convert and force every form of government under complete subjugation.

    Even British leadership openly blamed and accused the Zionist Jews for starting WW2, as for the US its a best kept secret. There are volumes upon volumes on the net proving they lied about hitler and they lied about the holocaust, so what should we expect from them, the truth? :skull:

    Always the same situation, pot calling kettle black!



    Communist Jews were the commandants of 11 out of the 12 main Stalinist-era Gulags, or concentration camps, including the camp system directors Matvei Berman and Hershel Jehuda. Ultimately, some 14 million people would be detained in the 53 camps which operated from 1934 to 1953. According to official Soviet data, some 1,053,829 people died in the camps from various causes.

    "The Jewish Run Death Camps In The Soviet Union"
    Dr. Herman Greife

    Extermination of the Valuable National Elements of

    Russia Through Jewry-

    For millions of people, death camps have been
    nothing but transit points into eternity. Here the death
    of millions could not be accounted for as murder and more-
    over, these death-sacrificed victims of Jewish tyranny could
    be exploited to the last drop of blood in the interest of a
    "Socialistic State" before being freed by the merciful
    reaper — death.


    The purpose of the creation of these slave camps is
    threefold :
    • 1. The inconspicuous extermination of the "undesirables''.
    • 2. Exploitation of the physical power of the condemned.
    • 3. The setting of an example for the entire population
    There they are all alike and only considered a substitute
    for animal power by the alien usurpers— no, not even that,
    because animals will get the best of care and preservation
    but these people must be exterminated.

    A woman prisoner reports: "I am so weak and thin that
    one could count the ribs even with my sheepskin on None
    of the women in our brigade wore strong. I started to push
    the wheelbarrow, but the embankments were sleep and the
    The women prisoners hare to do similar work as their male
    co-prisoners. The hardship and humiliation of their feminine
    dignity cannot be described.

    The women do not always get the service of a physician
    'when treatment is necessary ....

    Thirty thousand compulsion workers from the various
    camps were transferred to the Wodoras'del. Here they had
    to be accommodated in excavations as barracks and 'tents
    would not be supplied (in cold January!).

    On October 28, 1935 the Tsheka - G. P. U. was entrusted
    with the administration of the entire project of highways.

    Millions of people have already vanished in the first
    Marxist state of the world. And millions will have to
    sacrifice their lives under the Jewish domination as
    long as this devilish system is allowed to exist.

    [​IMG]




    Zionism - Coming to a theater near you soon!

    It starts seemingly innocent. A holocaust is a Jewish religious sacrifice and offering to their G-D, our treasonous senate passed laws in support of the promulgating those lies to cover american and british atrocities. No other religion gets special treatment but the jews. Now a zionist is the commander and chief.



    The New York State Senate


    Senate Passes Bill to Ensure All of New York's Children

    Are Taught About the History of the Holocaust

    June 12, 2018

    ISSUE: Education Holocaust
    A recent study found that there are significant illiteracies in America regarding awareness of established facts and detailed knowledge of the Holocaust. One finding shows that nearly half of all surveyed people aged 18 to 34 could not name a single concentration camp or ghetto out of nearly 40,000 in Europe during the Holocaust. Despite this, one encouraging note in the survey – 93 percent – agree that all students should learn about the Holocaust in school.
    https://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/p...l-new-yorks-children-are-taught-about-history

    Burning the constitution before your eyes!


    [​IMG]

    Its time to turn the heat up a little more, 99% of americans will be none the wiser since most or completely clueless with regard to the long reaching implication of seemingly innocent changes to law.

     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
  21. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree.

    I would say that the larger problems inside the US have had to do with the Christian Right that seems to equate Israel with their religious roots in Biblical Israelites.

    Even other presidents probably could have had a two state solution had not the Christian Right been so opposed to stopping the atrocities, cooperating with (or at least not blocking) other nations, etc. Clinton sure wanted such a solution. Even Bush wanted such a solution. His "pathway" included the demand that Israel vacate settlements that even Israel considered illegal as a requirement for entering negotiations. We gave Netanyahu nothing to point to as justification for opposing those within Israel who complained - so it was an easy decision for Netanyahu to stop that action even after he started it.

    I tend to have doubts that the political success of those who adhere to Judaism has been the real root of the problem that exists within the USA. The Jewish community in the US has been divided on this issue with old guard having more voice. Without the massive backing of the Christian Right I think influence of zionists wouldn't be enough. Without the Christian Right, the UN wouldn't be blocked from acting, direct involvement of other nations could be included, and I think there are several other ways that pressure could be applied were in not for our Christian Right.

    For example, I just find it hard to believe that US zionist organizations would have had enough clout to cause meaningful political retribution against a decision to not veto in the UNSC when they voted on Palestinian nationhood. Far more pressure was coming from the Christian Right.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
  22. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I said the declaration of independence declares a standard that applies to all humans. It states that in the document - that's not an idea that I created.

    I said nothing about "take them over".

    I really don't know how you missed that.
     
  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    So far, the only difference between Israel and Palestine in the West Bank is that Palestinians still own some land and Israel wants to take that land by force as clearly demonstrated by their actions - including taking the property of Palestinians by military force and refusing ANY negotiation on that.

    So, what the HELL do you mean by "work that out"?

    I don't know what to suggest might be Israel's intent with Gaza. So far they have continued decades of war against Gaza while again asolutely refusing to even just talk - let alone negotiate. Israel even refuses to discuss ceasefire with Gaza.

    As a result of that continuing Israeli war, Gaza is essentially an open air prison camp that is fully blockaded (which is universally recognized as an act of war) and is sustaining attacks by modern weapons obtained in part through US contributions. Israel even blockades EXPORTS as it assaults Gaza not just by military might but also by economic devestation.

    Again, "work it out"? You need to explain that.

    The US stands between Israel and international opposition to these humanitarian atrocities - supporting and protecting Israel as they deny EVERYTHING we say we stand for.


    This isn't just about Israel, as the USA is a strong promoter of Israeli policy in the atrocities it is perpetrating. So, again - nothing about our direction has ANYTHING to do with having them "work it out" - as you call it.
     
  24. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nobody owns land lol.

    Besides the Palestinians were gifted it, they are nothing but nomads no other Arab nation wants. The only reason they were given it in the first place was if they helped Britain in the war which never happened anyways.

    Stop that silly talk of it being their land, Jews were there long before they drifted in. They have zero claim to it and they are damn lucky Israel hasn't just herded them all into the sea for staying there.
     
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  25. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sorry you don't get to say they were a beacon of light for people as they denied human rights to people.

    You just don't.

    It wasn't a mistake at all, they were fully aware of their hypocrisy as was the world when they said that.

    You will notice the French, who based their new constitution on ours, didn't make exceptions for slaves.

    Chalking that up to a little mistake is the biggest cop out I've ever heard.
     
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