I can’t square conservatism with freedom.

Show me the DOI saying gun control, or prohibiting any material item for that matter, can be applied to our constitution.

It's not subjective. Our DOI provides the context for Our Constitution.
If a person can't acknowledge that then they may be a republican but in no way are they a conservative.

 

You have a distorted understanding of conservatism. Don't confuse "Republican" with "conservative"; for brief periods during election season Republicans will espouse "conservative" sentiments and solutions. Also do ascribe the slogans and proclamations of one Republican to EVERY conservative. Unlike the left/Democrats we lack the hive mentality of the left.

Also, step back and notice which party is actively involved in curtailing your individual freedoms. It's not conservatives attacking your natural gas appliances, or hiring more IRS agancy to squeeze more taxes out of you (And don't believe they're only going after the rich; the rich can afford the most professional accounts and lawyers to help them minimize their taxes; the little guys can't}

Ask yourself which party tried to set up a government bureau to monitor and evaluate our communications for misinformation/disinformation.

 

only ones in the usa that can't buy guns are ex-felons, who else is denied the right? or are we just referring to ar-15's and machine guns?

 

[QUOTE="Sirius Black, post: 1074240823, member: 54200"]This seems to support the op point, "Conservatism values freedom yet that freedom is limited to what is socially acceptable to mainstream conservatives. Freedoms that lay outside conservative theological and/or political dogma are often seen as a direct assault on good conservative values and can be vigorously opposed.

Freedom limited to conservative values tend be seen as authoritarian to those with different values, especially conflicting ones. The irony here is that conservatives feel that the left are the ones trying to force their will on all when in reality both use Machiavellian tactics to gain an unfair advantage over the other."[/QUOTE]

Anything else leads to anarchy!

 

I am saying that there is no objective way to tell which side is better at practicing morals and ethics… but it is easy to predict what partisan loyalists have to say on the matter. Point out the evil of the left or right and the common response is whataboutisms, false equivalency, deflection, minimization or denial.

I argue that human nature is systemic and assessing subjective shades of grey and siding with subjectivity assessed lesser evils does nothing to stand against evil. It just makes it stronger. Human history is rife with examples of civilizations that have fallen because of internal us vs them, which is what our founders went to great efforts to try to avoid for us.

Want to make America great? Then address the evil within to a greater measure than looking for it in the opposition.

 

I'm talking about places like Chicago and DC where it is virtually impossible to legally conceal carry a gun unless you have lots of money or political connections.

The right to self-defense is one of the most basic fundamental human rights of all and we see it's always authoritarian government want to deny people the ability to defend their self with the best tool possible

 

Well said. Thanks for your perspective.

 

You missed the DNC way, illegally!

 

I am against concealed carry permits, which most republican states also have

concealing your gun is the polite way to carry and one should not need a permit to be polite

 

Look- if you ain't a conservative then you may live in America, you may even have been born in America and vote in America. But you ain't an American.

The DOI lays out the foundational principles of America.

 

Starting July 1st thanks to the conservative governor of Florida.... There is no longer a permit requirement and there are plenty of other states that have followed suit.

I believe there are 13 states that do not require a permit and I would almost bet you an entire paycheck that almost all 13 of those, are conservative States.

 

conservatives are becoming the minority

 

and I agree with that, and that is why I said "most" States

 

I think it would be much less than "most".

I'm sure that statement would be much more accurate to describe liberal states

 

Only because we let the federal government seize control of the state's shcools.

What kids are supposed to be learning should be left up to individual school districts to determine. The more variety we get the more opportunities to capitalize on the success of others. That the way things are supposed to work. But when we let the federal government fund state's public schooling it take the money further and further away from the people in who's name it is being spent.

And that's how government wants it, that's how democrats want it, and that's how republicans want it , they want it set up so they can spend other people's money. The only proof this needs is the structure of the system we use today.

Conservatives think the people who paid the money should benefit from the spending of the money. That's the conservative ideal. The best way to do this is to keep the money close to home. The farther away your money travels the easier and more likely it is misspent.

 

I was incorrect when I said 13 states .
The green states are the ones that do not require a permit so your statement is clearly false.
That's 27 States so you tell me how most conservative states require a permit

 

I am immediately skeptical of any group that presents itself as the arbiter of our founding documents. Comes across as authoritarian to me. Said documents tend to be subjectively interpreted in politically convenient ways.

Both groups try to shut down things. If it is wrong for one then it must be wrong for all. To defend the civil liberties we like and oppose liberties that conflict with our values is where the authoritarianism rises. Pandemic closures wrong but outlawing Drag Queen shows is justified is hypocrisy.

The motto of a political partisan should be, Do as I say and not as I do.

 

yep, many of those States recently changed their laws, and I agree with the change

 

I am immediately skeptical of any group that presents itself as the arbiter of our founding documents. Comes across as authoritarian to me. Said documents tend to be subjectively interpreted in politically convenient ways by both sides.

 

That chart does not tell the complete story despite the pretty colors it employs.

In Wisconsin you can carry a holstered handgun walking down the sidewalks so long as you ain't a felon. Like our lovely governor Doyle said when he vetoed concealed carry statute for the second time - "If you want to carry a gun in Wisconsin you can carry it on your hip".

Doyle probably thought nobody would actually do that, but he was wrong.

 

Based on your replies to this and other responses, your OP wasn't really asking a question; you already had your answer, you were simply announcing it.

OK, the idea of "subjective" interpretation of something like laws and legal documents like the US Constitution, is it's own tyranny, since what you are really saying is that they can mean whatever you, the reader, want it to mean.

Clearly no. If the Constitution is subjective, then we don't have a constitution, our "law" is based on whatever the people in power say it is. So if that's your view of the constitution, than it's a pretty authoritarian view.

On the shutdowns, I'm not arguing that some right leaning Quislings didn't betray the law, and the Constitution, they did. But it was you guys, the left, that came up with restrictions, enforced them, and defended them. This site is an archive of who supported liberty and who supported authoritarian clamp downs. Trying to say, "but both sides" isn't much of an answer. Were the authoritarian lockdowns legally and morally wrong? I say yes. What about you?

 

Anything else leads to anarchy![/QUOTE]

I agree, which is why I find it interesting that few on the right can even admit that American conservatism is clearly becoming more and more authoritarian as the years go by. Same goes for the left. Perhaps over time and after a nationally jarring event we may pull back from the brink and return to cooperation and concession as demanded by democracy. Or more likely than not our experiment in democracy or specifically a representative republic will devolve into a leftist or conservative authoritarianism regime like Christian Nationalism or socialism.

 

It's the Leftists that are trying to outlaw speech, gun ownership, certain cars, symbols, the list goes on. If the Left is your idea of "freedom" then Lord help us all.

 

You guys on the left? Sorry my friend, I guarantee you that the left does not want me due to my conservative positions.

If our founding documents are objective then who is to be the arbiter of what it says if not you and those that agree with you or that you agree with? Because if that is the litmus test it strikes me as convenient and politically advantageous… or in other words selfish and self-centered… or group-centered.

As for were the lockdown legal? Depends upon who you ask. Ask me and I say I do not know as laws are made by those with the most power and political power is like a pendulum as it swings back and forth over and over. What is legal now may not be in the future as some things that were illegal are not anymore.

A group that claims theirs is the correct reading of our founding documents is a weak argument.

 

Remember that time that Democrat leaders tried to pass a law that any employer with more than 25 employees had to essentially Force their employees to get the vaccine or that the employer would have to test the unvaccinated every week which was of course an ultimatum designed to make the employers do the dirty work of the tyrants because of course no employer would be eating the cost of doing that every week.

Nothing says freedom more than stuff like that.