I can’t square conservatism with freedom.

You should respond with a quote so i know what the hell you are talking about.

but if i said "that's false" it was probably referencing the sentence that preceded it.

 

Normally I wouldn't ask, but if you read what you quoted and your response in post number one-hundred-forty-four you will see the source of my confusion.

Or not. If not, perhaps it is you that is confused

 

I am sorry you are confused. use your eyeballs and read if you are still confused i charge an hourly rate for lessons in English.

 

Oh so you want to be unreasonable? You don't seem cognitive yourself, as a whole. Come back when you have had some rest.

 

if you think i am unreasonable talk to someone else. "You don't seem cognitive" is a sentence that doesn't make sense. perhaps you ought not call the kettle black.

I shouldn't have to explain how conversations work, and i am not going to. perhaps i will laugh at you some more later. i am still chuckling about the free mason crap.

 

Except you do.

 

All of us make judgments regarding the integrity of those we meet, know and deal with every day. We have to- or we wouldn't survive. That's not to say we all do it well, but we all do because it's necessary. Some people are much better than others at it. Those who have little skill in this respect simply assume it can't be done and that those who say it can are wrong. That of course makes it unnecessary to consider that they may be wrong and lack skill, which would be uncomfortable.

As to what people will say, we know that generally, they will defend the positions that have taken- and there is nothing surprising about that.

I've been teaching people how to read the character of others for over 40 years. I've been hired by large corporations to teach managers, and by clinical psychologists to improve their ability to read their clients.
Often, you can do that with great accuracy in a matter of minutes. On the simple side, it can be explained this way-

People are regulated by certain characteristics of values they have acquired and accepted. This is not unlike carrying a "tool box" with the devices we use to deal with life. We all have such a box, and I can tell what your character is like and how you will conduct yourself in certain situations simply by looking in your tool box. Just as a carpenter's tool box includes hammers and saws, a mechanics box includes wrenches, etc, the tools in your box define who you are and how you will act.. So all I need to do to read you is get a look in your tool box, and most people make that easy.

Bottom line- is that what people claim or say can be totally misleading, but what they do is who they are- so you must ignore the words themselves, and consider the actions. If you lie to me, regardless of the words used to construct the lie- the act of lying is an action you took, so I know the capacity to lie is in your toolbox. Words only have validity when the actions support them, but the actions always define you.

I've had people say I was psychic many times, but it's only reading what is readily visible, providing you have the capacity to read it. Most do not, but this is an acquired skill, not a gift of some kind. If you do not have that skill, you usually won't believe anyone else does either. All people are born with the capacity to become good people. The tools in your box are acquired, and they define your true character, your ethics, your morality. That is usually behind a facade, but not invisible.

 

Don't feel bad. I can't square liberalism with freedom. More government equals less freedom. By the way conservatism isn't about maintaining the status quo. It is about less government and more freedom. I should know since I am a conservative.

 

Republicans are very authoritarian when it comes to social issues, so them pretending to be for freedom is almost an oxymoronic. Many people who call themselves conservative are leaning libertarian, who actually are pro freedom on social issues (and every other issue) but it seems people stick to old labels like 'conservative'. Populist pseudo-cons are the most authoritarian, but they also call themselves conservative and I am not even sure why they insist on it, but whatever floats their boat. To them, anyone who does not agree with their authoritarian views are "liberal leftists".

 

First we have to detach progressives from democrats and conservative from republicans.

 

Show me anyone in any state that kills a baby and isn't charged with murder, except maybe Diaper Donnie and his "family seperation" BS

 

The OP's argument is that only the right is authoritarian. So is your position that both sides are authoritarian?

 

If you still have not made up your mind whether the lockdown was justified or not then you are missing the point. The issue wasn't justified or not, it was authoritarian or not, and it was clearly authoritarian. If you are thinking that authoritarianism is OK IF it's justified than your OP was blaming the wrong group.

Get a mirror.

 

I like the idea of live and let live yet few if any live up to the ideal although many probably delude themselves into thinking they do. I have spent 20 hours a week over the last 10 years studying psychology in a practical rather than academic way. One of many things I have learned from the study is that freedom is not part of human nature as we are tribal. Freedoms fought for by one tribe tend to come at the expense of the oppression of other tribes. We are all for freedom for ourselves while rationalizing why suppressing the freedoms of others is OK. That or some live in complete ignorance of their nature and delude themselves into thinking their freedom does not come at the expense of others.

I see socialism as doomed to failure just as I see democracy doomed to fail also. This is because our tribal instincts tend towards authoritarianism and we are easily corrupted by power. Marxism seems to promote egalitarianism which goes directly against our nature. We can’t even be egalitarian within our own tribe as there will always be a hierarchy, even if only implicit.

I do not know enough about libertarian policy to make any judgments about them other than libertarians are humans thus suffer the same flaws as conservatives and liberals.

 

I agree. Seems to me the further one is to the left or right the more they tend towards authoritarianism which is the bane of concession and cooperation which are a requisite for a healthy functioning democracy.

 

I am not best suited to point out the corruption of the left as my arguments are generalized examination of human nature which is systemic. Although I bet if you create a thread asking conservatives to point out the corruption of the left they would be better at it than I. I know much more about the right than the left as I use to be a moderate conservative. But I have learned enough about human nature to understand that it is systemic thus much of the ugliness you see on the right also exists on the left and in the center where I currently reside.

Every time I hear a politician deflect rather than address their own part in the problem I see this as a moral failing and an example of corruption within our political system. Shifting blame is not a virtue to me, taking responsibility is. But we all know that to take responsibility for failure is to risk being kicked out of office. Yet doubling down on bs is well received by fellow partisans. I don’t think any of us can fully comprehend the corruption of the left and right as each side goes to great lengths to hide it and many loyalists have no incentive to dig too deep.

Human nature is systemic. Partisans look at the differences to justify their loyalty to a subjectively arrived at lesser evil. I look at the similarities and care little which side is worse because if a thing is wrong for one then it is wrong for all. To think our group is somehow special and have conquered the more disturbing aspects of their nature reveals how oblivious some are of their nature. A huge failing of our education system is a near complete lack of educating our young on how the mind works.

 

I believe both are authoritarian as human nature tends towards authoritarianism as opposed to concession and cooperation which is required for a healthy functioning democracy. The further you go to the left or right the more authoritarian you will be and I see both parties racing towards the extremes. I reject political extremism and respect moderates, especially those that can take issue with the failings of their own party. Yet in this day and age political moderates risk becoming pariahs within their own party if they fall out of step with the party line. That is authoritarianism in action.

 

No literate and rationally competent person who read the OP could come to that conclusion.

 

I blame both groups. I focus on conservatives as I was one for most of my life and resent being taught strict moral and ethical standards that I regularly see conservatives fail to practice. I know more about conservatism than liberalism but I know enough psychology to understand that human nature is systemic.

 

Cancel culture is normal and systemic. Those that think they are special exceptions are ignorant of their own nature.

 

I guess. Where are you going with this?

 

Republicans lied when they told Americans during the last year of the Obama administration that you cannot fill a vacancy on the Supreme Court during an election year and used this as a reason to block Obama’s nominee. Then they went on to do that very thing during an election year under Trump.

Federalist Society SCOTUS nominees lied during their confirmation hearings by claiming that Roe vs Wade was judicial precedence, they then voted to overturn Roe vs Wade once on the bench.

Both sides lie their asses off. Partisans can see the lies of the other side but tend to be oblivious to the lies committed by their own side. Those with no loyalty to either can see the lies from both camps.

 

Well said. Thanks for the input.

 

Well, we certainly can't square freedom with the Democratic party who wants to take our rights away and has.

 

I use to be a conservative too, until the rose colored glasses began to slip exposing the hypocrisy I formerly could not see. Both sides are becoming more authoritarian but it is predictable that partisans on each side will limit authoritarian claims to the opposition.

Take debt for example. Both sides add to it but Republicans only seem to care about it when they are out of power. When they hold the executive and legislative branch’s of government they do nothing to substantively reduce the debt. This works against the claim that conservatives are for small government. Both parties spend beyond the means of the government.

As for freedom, any that are not rightwing partisans can easily see how the right fights to limit freedoms they do not support. Those that say don’t tread on me tend to be oblivious of how the party they support treads on others.