If you don't want a baby, get your tubes tied.

WHY? Why should the woman's choice end at sex? Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy and a man's involvement doesn't include 9 months of pregnancy and financial/job loss...so women get more opportunity for CHOICE....aren't they the lucky ones !!!

 

I was referring to the man's hypothetical right to require the woman to get un-pregnant—which would be a legitimate concern were it not for the rights of the fetus. In such a situation, the woman would not need to consent to pregnancy (after all, abortion supporters claim pregnancy is such a bother anyway).

Again, just because it is inside the woman's body doesn't mean she has inviolable rights over it. The man still has as much rights as the woman to invoke his reproductive rights, and stop the development of his offspring.

The man's involvement doesn't necessarily have to be restricted to demanding the woman remain pregnant. He could demand she get un-pregnant.

You say that the woman's rights override the rights of the fetus. But why should the woman get more rights than the father? What if she does not have to be pregnant? Why are her rights to keep the fetus greater than the father's rights to abort it?

 

From what I have read here, virtually all pro-choice arguments hinge on the woman's right not to be pregnant. These arguments cease to be applicable once we start talking about making the woman un-pregnant.

Yeah sure, "the right to choose what happens to your own body" sounds nice, but when we actually start trying to break it down, is there really anything to it? In other words, forget the travails of pregnancy for a moment— what other reasons (if any) does a woman have the right to choose?

We're not talking about the woman's body; the fetus is not part of the woman. And if the fetus is completely devoid of any inherent meaning and value—other than what the woman chooses to give it—what inherent right does the woman have over this other life form? To choose if it lives or dies...

Anything else besides "a woman shouldn't have to be pregnant if she doesn't want to", or is that it? Is that all pro-choicers have??

Why? The fetus is not her body. What right has she over it?
You don't believe the father has any rights.

But a woman can legally force her fetus to be aborted.

I don't. But if the fetus was just a worthless clump of cells, why shouldn't the father have reproductive rights too?
Why can the woman say "No, I don't want a baby anymore", but the father can't ? Don't you believe an individual has the right not to have offspring if they don't want to?

You believe a woman's choice shouldn't end just because she had sex. Why should the father's?

I'm trying to make a point. If we try to examine pro-choice arguments in reverse, it becomes clear how ridiculous some of them are.

A woman who aborts effectively forces the man to have one also. It's his child too.

 

I'm not even Jewish, but all I can say about all of this is "oy vey." Pregnancy comes with some risks and sometimes very serious and life altering complications. Also, some women are "not all there" mentally/emotionally. Some don't have the means or the fortitude to go through a pregnancy.

Women who ARE capable are not the ones getting abortions. These are things you NEED to understand. It is just not as black and white as you would like it to be. It's a very complicated matter.

 

I don't dispute that.

Hence the title of this thread, If you don't want a baby, get your tubes tied.

In some cases. In other cases it is a very black and white matter; the woman was very irresponsible, and now wants an abortion out of pure convenience, nevermind the life that's growing in there.

 

Attachment does not make it part of her body.

So? Since when have abortion supporters cared about the life of a fetus? What right does the woman have to keep it alive?

 

So nothing, you don't really have anything. Figures.

 

Just facts and science and law....all those things you shun and fear.....

 

Holy smokes, YES it does.

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It's you who has nothing. It is a part of her body until it is able to survive outside of the womb. Until then, it is completely dependent upon the mother for life. If you detach it from the mother, it cannot live. Sometimes, they will even miscarry on their own. It is not for you to decide. You do not rule or make the laws, especially when it comes to another person's body.

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Again, you cannot force a woman to do anything, whether or not she is irresponsible is irrelevant. It is not your business. Mind your business and worry about yourself. Don't involve yourself with a woman who would do these kinds of things.

 

You have been told numerous times that is not always possible - that most of the time, women without children or who are under 30 are denied a tubal.

How CONVENIENT for you that you will never be pregnant, eh?

 

So doctors dish out abortions like they were candy from a candy dish, but women have a hard time finding a doctor who will give them a tubal ?

 

No, doctors don't hand out abortions like candy, they give women abortions on request.

And because of deep seated sexism, which you should identify with, doctors ARE reluctant, and sometimes even refuse to give women tubals because they, like you, feel women are put on earth to breed.....it's just another form of controlling women which should make YOU dance with glee.........

 

If it's that damned bad for them, one would think they would have the sense to use reliable birth control. Yes, it's their duty to do so. But leave it to liberals to blame someone else. They need to stop depending on someone else and take responsibility for themselves.

Yes, it's that easy.

 

NO where in the post of mine you quoted did I blame anyone else.

Here it is: Quote Originally Posted by FoxHastings View Post

WHY? Why should the woman's choice end at sex? Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy and a man's involvement doesn't include 9 months of pregnancy and financial/job loss...so women get more opportunity for CHOICE....aren't they the lucky ones !!!""""""""""""



Birth control fails and the best cost lots of money that not every woman can afford and women are NOT required to use birth control..


Women DO take responsibility when they abort a pregnancy that they don't want.


Repub/Conservatives should quit trying to make Bigger Government by taking people's responsibilities away from them....

 

Obviously, if one is too stupid to use birth control reliably, it will fail. As I recall, someone on this forum once said abstinence is also a failure.

lolol.

Whatever.....................

 

Birth control methods have varying degrees of reliability in typical use.

In typical use, abstinence has a very high rate of failure.

 

Preaching abstinence is a failure but failures still keep preaching it.

 

lol. God Bless the pitiful folks who don't know the meaning of abstinence.

It's clear, too, that many people have zero clue as to what "reliable" means. Or "responsibility". If birth control is such a failure, why are liberals yelping that it should be free?

Lord, it's truly hopeless. Which, of course, is why I rarely read posts made by some people.

Thank God certain mentalities approve of and use abortion. We don't need more idiots. Yes, I'm ambivalent on abortion. I just don't think taxpayers should ever, ever, ever have to pay for it. People who want to live like slags and skanks should pay their own way.

 

Have you been paying attention? Evidently not.

No, doctors do not 'dish out abortions like they were candy from a candy dish'.....women have to sign informed consent papers, they have to be told of risks and alternatives, they have to go through pre-op bloodwork, it takes time to arrange an abortion etc.

 

51% of women who abort were using contraception in the month they got pregnant.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

 

Guttmacher? Oh, my, a dot.org. lolol.

Clue: Any statistic you need to bolster your opinion can be found on the interwebz.

Using and reliably using are totally different. How many of those nitwits forgot once or twice?

Clue: You can't do that.

But I forget.........I'm dealing with people who think abstinence results in pregnancy.