Iranian Christian pastor to be executed for not converting to Islam

This is a large forum where people with many divergent views participate. The main reason it works as well as it does is the rule against personal attacks. If people cannot abide by that rule they have no business posting here.

 

Correct. Well spotted.

Incorrect. Poor assessment.

Incorrect. If you can't stand the heat, ...

 

That is always your prerogative, my friend.

I am aware of your stance upon the death penalty, but my point was not a direct comparison between those two specific instances. My point being that the actions of a predominantly religious (even if technically secular) state does not reflect directly upon the tenets of the religious belief concerned.

I agree that there is morally, no comparison between the two alleged offences, but both men were convicted of an offence proscribed by their respective legal systems.

It is an assumption on your part that I am equating the two offences. I pointed to the possible execution of innocent persons in both societies as being morally reprehensible, but that neither state act is a reflection upon the religious beliefs of the populations concerned.

 

Do you think it is a great deal more unjust to execute a person guilty of breaking an unjust law, than to execute a person innocent of breaking a just law? Because I personally don't see how that is true. It is a terrible injustice either way.

 

I would feel much better about Islam and Muslims if instead of making excuses and denying they simply took responsibility for these actions.

If they became part of the solution instead of contributing to the problem by obfuscating the issue.

 

Leo, the Iranian pastor was NOT convicted and sentenced to death by a civil court but by a religious court in the city of Qom. The civil arm is upholding a sentence set by a group analagous to bishops in most western countries.

The initial charge against the pastor was apostacy and it was explained that if he didn't recant his Christian faith and convert back to the Islamic religion of his childhood he would be put to death.

Now that there has been a world wide outcry, the Iranian government has added trumped up rape charges against the man.


frodly,

I am against the death penalty even if the person has committed a heinous crime. My opposition to the death penalty is based not only on its effect on the person being executed but also by its effect on those either passing or condoning the sentence.

 

I still struggle to understand how anybody can be in support of the death penalty. Good post.

 

I wasn't even aware of the rape charges, but you continue to miss my point. The Iranian justice system is inextricable entwined with their religious systems (which, IMO, employ ludicrous standards), and as such, represents their national system of justice.

The US system of justice employs the death penalty with which you, I, and the majority of human beings disagree, but it represents your national system of justice.

My contention being that neither case justifies a condemnation of all people of either Islamic or Christian belief, on the basis of those particular travesties of justice. You are entitled to disagree with this stance, but you need to understand what I am saying.

An excellent post with which I entirely agree.

 

Excuse me, but what does the Shia religious day of Ashura have to do with how the govt of Iran treats other religions ?

Are you attempting to infer something with those blood drenched clothes and swords?

Maybe you should explain what Ashura is all about.

 

What a stupid religion this must be which declares that:

'Converting from Islam is a sin.'

Let's introduce some common 21st century common sense into the wordl, and remove all antiquated, archaic religious thought and shove it down the nearest elevator.

 

I will not get to deep into the Ashura, only do state it is a day of religious mourning for the Shia Muslims and its name comes from the word ten (10) in Semitic languages. However, when mourning is expressed by swords and self inflicting wounds, it is a very bad sign.
Just like Chekhov's said:
If you see a rifle in the first act, in the second or third act it absolutely must go off.

 

I wonder who is the ignorant and the racist.
Here is the list of countires where converting from one religion to the next is a capital panishment. Only conversion from Islam to another religion bares this punishment while the other way around bare no punishment.
The list say it all:
Iran – illegal (death penalty)
Egypt – illegal (death penalty)
Pakistan – illegal (death penalty since 2007)
United Arab Emirates – illegal (death penalty)
Somalia – illegal (death penalty)
Afghanistan – illegal (death penalty, although the U.S. and other coalition members have put pressure that has prevented recent executions)
Saudi Arabia – illegal (death penalty)
Sudan – illegal (death penalty)
Qatar – illegal (death penalty)
Yemen – illegal (death penalty)
Mauritania – illegal (death penalty)
Nigeria – illegal in twelve of 37 states (death penalty)

Now we can talk about racism and ingnorance....

 

It is cool how people here claim the killing for converting is not mentioned in Islam, while high ranking and respected Islamic Clerics disagree.

 

For some lying in the name of Islam is a virtue: Al-taqiyya.

 

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
The Prophet said, "War is deceit."

 

This religious ceremony has nothing to do with war ( except that within Islam itself) with any foreign entity.

I know what Ashura is.

What a ridiculous thread. Disingenuous.

 

No death penalty in Egypt for conversion. I will look up the other countries on your list.

 

No death penalty in Iran either for apostasy.

The Iranian man was 19 when he converted to Christianity. He is 35 now.
Why would it take 16 years to accuse him of apostasy?

 

Qatar has no deaths for apostasy.

 

Because like most Christians he was hiding his faith?

 

Pakistan

Apostasy Bill proposed in 2006 still has not been made law.

 

Free Man

how about you giving us all the cases and names of those killed for the above countries you listed.

Oh and using Wikipedia is not acceptable source. You should know that.