Is health care a responsibility of the government. or a personal responsibility?

Well lets get out of the UN declaration of Human rights. Maybe I should ask Trump to end such an agreement. There is nothing that the government can take from me to give you Human Rights AT MY EXPENCE, because you must take my rights against the 13 amendment to make me involuntary servitude to you. Our constitution supersedes all other considerations.

 

Promoting is not = to providing.

 

Very good Robert. I was going to bring that up but you beat me to it. When I promote someone or something, I am giving lip service. Providing is a totally different animal.

However, all democrats and many Republicans cannot read past a third grade level it seems.

Words DO have MEANINGS. If they didn't, we could not communicate.

 

I agree, our government should step in to promote good health care both on the individual level and in medical care. Allowing corrupt price fixing and outright theft by our medical complex is unjust. We have the power to have some of the lost efficient (both cost effectiveness and in practice) in the world but we don’t because of greed.

 

Stolen is a stretch, you are free to move - renounce your citizenship and be done with it.

If taxes were voluntary then I doubt many people would pay them. I wouldn’t but I understand the purpose behind taxes - they are a necessary evil that is abused by our government because neither Republicans or Democrats hold their party responsible. For an example look at the number of Republicans that were screaming about the debt, budgets, and fiscal responsibility yet are silent now.

Why would I pay your taxes? Seems like you are wanting a free ride just like those people you are railing against. Strange narrative you are pushing...

 

If you worked for a Fortune 500 company or had been a politician, cop, or judge, you would not have had to pay a cent and your spouses would have survived.

Ask any of those beneficiaries if they prefer to have family members die rather than to get their medical costs subsidized like Israelis do at your expense.

 

Contrary to popular myths today, our Founding Fathers did believe in subsidization of the populace which would have included medical costs. See Paine's Agrarian Justice.

http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/files/Paine1795.pdf



Ignorant unpatriotic right wingers call it socialism. But we patriots call it Americanism and we have the TRUTH on our side.

 

Healthcare is a service that employs healthcare products.
Healthcare is an industry in that it combines material with ingenuity.
There are only four ways to acquire the products we need to survive: Industry, Trade, Charity and Theft.

Because everything done by government is done by force of law, and charity has a completely voluntary nature, government cannot conduct charity.

One man's need is no good measure of another man's responsibility.

 

Not sure what you mean. Are you implying that the workers of the Fortune 500 companies and the police officers get their health care for free? Many of us have health insurance that is part of our compensation for our labor. I work just as hard for my health insurance as I do for my hourly wage. I am assuming the workers of the Fortune 500 companies and the police officers do too.

 

I am using medicare. I see the way my doctors get treated. This concerns me a lot. So many doctors can manage without helping those using medicare. Normal insurance firms pay better to doctors. Some insurance firms feel it a duty to doctors and patients to pay doctors more than medicare pays. Many do not understand that if Medicare says you do not need it, then they refuse to pay. So your doctor wants you to have a colon exam. So you get it. Medicare then denies paying him or her and the hospital. What helps me is my state medicaid. But other than that, medicare can tell a doctor no to pills and no to treatment.

 

F500 companies take big tax deductions for these costs every year meaning that taxpayers subsidize these costs. Cops, pols, judges get their costs subsidized by taxpayers directly.

 

So let's start a campaign to get rid of those deductions. As for the police, their wages and health insurance are in exchange for their labor. I wouldn't call that "subsidized."

 

part time and seasonal municipal employees don't get their health coverage subsidized so let's be consistent in this regard - no welfare for these people and for pols/judges as well

 

If the government is going to "make sure you get a safe and correct care when you do", someone has to pay for it. There are poor people who cannot pay for it. That's why we have Medicaid. There are also the elderly who cannot pay for it. That's why we have Medicare. About 55% of all people are covered by employer-provided health care. About 14.6% are covered by direct purchase. About 10% are uninsured. The challenge for us to figure out what to do about, is that 10%.

 

That is not a solution. I hate it when the retort is move away.

What are we? Pigs in the pen waiting slaughter?

 

Absolutely! General welfare is not individual welfare.

 

Not much to clarify. Is dealing Mob/Mafia/Gang extortion - threatening people with harm if they do not pay - the responsibility of Gov't or there responsibility of the individual ?

Does Gov't have the legitimate authority to make laws - and enforce those laws- related to extortion or should this be the responsibility of the people who are being extorted to deal with ?

If you think extortion is within the legitimate purview of Gov't - Why ?

 

The Preamble is not a law but a prelude to something more important. It is like when we pick up a book and look at the back cover or read the inside page to see if the book piques our interest.

The General Welfare Clause was not intended to be used as legislation for welfare programs of the people. It was part of the Articles of Confederation (Article 3) and adopted into the Constitution. (Article 1, Section 8, Clause 1. The original Article 3 from the Articles of Confederation reads as such, The said states hereby severally enter into a firm league of friendship with each other for the common defense, the security of their liberties and the mutual and general welfare; binding themselves to assist each other against all force offered to, or attacks made upon them, or any of them, on account of religion, sovereignty, trade, or any other pretence whatever." The "general welfare clause" is meant to provide for the common defense and overall welfare of the United States. It has absolutely nothing to do with healthcare, Social Security, Welfare programs.

 

There is no other alternative to not wanting to pay taxes. Political disagreements can be discussed and potentially resolved. People that think taxes are theft... there is no resolution.

 

My mother died of cancer, my father had to keep working to keep their health insurance instead if of spending the last months with her. If you call that a good system then I will simply have to disagree. It’s absurd to me that Americans support a for profit health care system while being ranked high in infant mortality cost and corruption and low in efficiency life expectancy and overall care.

Neither of your wives utilized a hospice program?

 

The overall welfare of the United States is the health of its citizenry. Without a healthy population the country could not exist.

 

Like union dues, fees to cross a bridge, charges to watch a movie, there is a price the public sees fair. Taxes do not work that way. They don't factor in fair or not fair. FAIR TAX is being tried. A lot see it as not fair. But it is the FAIREST kind of tax of record.

Why are taxes theft? They are not voluntary. Say you don't want to see the local movie. you simply do not show up. That is fair. But when you are forced, there is no such thing as fair.

 

But that does not mean subsidized or free health care, free education or college, or social welfare or social security. If it does then please direct me to the Article, Section and clause or amendment.

 

I would argue that an educated and healthy populace is paramount not only for the common defense but for the general welfare as well. There is no such thing as “free”, someone pays for it - but those funds are much better spent on improving the lives and futures of our populace than on the waste and fraud we currently have.

Where does the constitution state that government is limited to only items within it?

 

If you want health insurance, get a job and pay for the coverage. It's what any responsible person does. My self employed BIL is dying in a hospital with leukemia right now and has been paying $1700/month for health insurance.(lots of other health issues) His wife just returned to work as an RN in his hospital for the health coverage and to be near him 24/7. It sucks, but it's what you do.