Is homosexuality "normal"?

If attraction to a specific emotional desire is genetic, opposed to learned, there are a few thousand potential genes out there no one knows about. I understand at different ages, peoples desire to mate changes, but for the most part younger people, from puberty to about menopause, is the sexual desires. If mating is determined genetically, then IMO so would be all forms of sexual desires, even frowned on or maybe illegal (bestiality) should also be genetically caused. THEY ARE NOT.

 

How do you believe the general population of gay people (not the radical / militant left) is pushing their gayness in your face, most people that make such obscure statements mean I don't want to know they exist - just wanting to gather context.

Is a gay person on tv "pushing it in your face"
How about a co-worker having a picture of them with their same sex partner (and/or pictures of their wedding)
Gay pride parade down town? How about in a near by state - at what distance is it acceptable for consenting adults to gather legally?
Beating taught that gay people exist and the potential dangers of certain sex acts in school, if you believe sex education for the public is acceptable, if not skip this one.

At what point do gay people move from existing to "pushing it in your face"? And before you mention the bakery denying equal services in violation of state law, let's pretend they are just two women out of millions of gay people.

 

That is the clearest explanation I have heard. Yes, homosexuality is not something new but it is not something widely accepted. Every society had it's own way to either accept or reject it but it has never been the norm. It appears the further an advanced society becomes, the more it is accepted in a round about way like the Roman society where dictators like Sulla had a transvestite lover whereas tribal societies either accept it outright as indigenous Americans did by making them 'special' to Islamic societies the kill them.

 

Since there appears to have always been a homosexual component in any given human population, it may well be normal that for any given population of humans, it IS normal for a certain percentage to be homosexual. It that context, homosexuality is normal in a human population.

 

Well, I must apologize. The last time I was accused of rubbing my sexuality in someone's face was in a store where I and my spouse had purchased items and I simply touched his hand, I didn't kiss or even caress, and a loud mouth behind me in line started ranting about me displaying my sexuality to dive it in her face. I said nothing to her. I assume that is what everybody means when they say they don't like people pushing it on them.

I should have asked instead of assume. What do you consider pushing you to accept it?

 

what it usually means is someone was doing something that turned them on sexually

the women was probably sexually turned on by your movements somehow and blamed you

that is why in the middle east women cover their entire bodies as if a man get turned on, it's the womens fault not the man's

 

I wonder if it's that, or if it's that I have a man's love and she doesn't. Or that men other than her husband/boyfriend are affectionate.

Or if she just had a fight with her brother that just came out to her, I'm not sure, she was being far too rude to talk to, my SO wanted to make out in front of her, but I didn't want to give her the time of day.

 

The issue of legal CONSENT makes a significant difference.

Still, I've learned to focus my primary concern toward how homosexual people are treated in this society and others. Unless there is some crime/victimization taking place... I see ZERO valid reasons to put down or discriminate against gays.

The real/perceived "normalcy" of homosexuality, is often employed as a red herring.

 

Yeah like mutations are normal because they happen. Come on. You're playing word games. What is not prevalent is not normal.

 

will you bake me an anti gay cake?

 

Homosexuality is normal for homosexuals, just like having a step-stool would be normal for short people, and having a fear of ceiling fans would be normal for really tall people.

 

Well for the record I would not consider what you described as in my facebat all. If two people are happy....I am happy. The less pissed off people in the world the better. I am talking about the element of the gay community that is knowingly trying to force people to violate their religion...such as the bakers. After the first story came out we had to endure similar stories day after day. This means the militant gay crowd began organizing and targeting businesses. Do I think the bakers are equally as silly? Yes, but I dont believe one ideology gets to trump the other. Can I sue a jewish baker if he refuses to make a cake with Hitler is good written on it? You also cant force people to cater your gay wedding. Unless you think its ok to sue gay people for not working at an anti gay event. The reason why I dont have issue with gays is because I dont. Ive never had an issue but if I have to worry about being sued when gays begin setting up businesses with lawsuits...then I see a problem.

 

This is why the bakers lost, because like you, they don't understand public accommodation laws. The gay couple wasn't trying to get a cake that said "(*)(*)(*)(*) Christians", they were getting a wedding cake the same as any other heterosexual couple does. They were trying to get something that was sold to other people. Those that support the bakers continue to prove they don't understand public accommodation laws one bit.

 

No gay person can satisfy the sensibilities of a homophobic or self-hating gay person. It is futile to even try.

 

It's LOT of things, the reasons are likely myriad.

And many people need to learn to deal with their own 'internal' problems, instead of projecting them on others. I think American society has generally realized that scapegoating gays as a social panacea, is no longer acceptable or tolerable. And I'm happy that day has come in this land... despite understanding that more battles for equality are straight ahead.

 

Homosexuality is something that got public acceptance and recognition recently only and most countries have not allowed it.

That whether it is normal or abnormal depends primarily on the public psyche and if it is publicly accepted it is a normal act if not it is abnormal. I do not think personally there is any abnormality about homosexuality. It is purely a matter of gaining general acceptance or social endorsement.

 

My problem with normalizing sexual behavior or frankly any activity perceived as extreme, is the perceived acceptance by the young and ignorant. Historically people lived their "other than normal" (however defined) lives in private, without trying to gain creditability or make their activity seem the norm.

As for discrimination or putting down people for sexual activity, I agree. However when any person turns from personal desires or practice, to advocate for their abnormal behavior, it is those people I oppose. In my mind it's the deviant that discriminate toward those that practice or live some traditional lifestyle.

 

Thanks for ignoring 99% of my post, I see you have learned a few lessons from our politicians. I guess ignoring questions that point out the flaw in your reasoning is easier.

And to answer your question, if you requested the same cake, or a similar variation of, that I typically make then yes I would make you the cake I make for all of my customers. What you do with it after it leaves my store in no way effects me. No specific burdon would be placed on me by making a cake that I make on a recurring basis.

Care to man up and explain the reasoning that you quoted and then ignored.

 

what is a anti-gay cake? a wedding cake for two homophobes?

if I sold wedding cakes, I would sell them to anyone wanting to buy them

.

 

Homosexuality may not be 'normalized' in the minds of those who are socially conservative... but there are many millions of people who understand and accept that homosexuality AND homosexual people are normal.

And I understand that many today have seen the futility of trying to convince those with some aversion to gayness, to think otherwise. I'm there myself. My primary focus now, is helping to ensure that people don't discriminate against or oppress those who are LGBT. America (for one nation) does NOT need more of that.

Do YOU think that homosexuality or related behaviors are "extreme" per se?

Here is the deal: Those who can look at homosexuality and perceive it as "extreme", are either misled via some indoctrination... or severely lacking an education. I mean, that's the stuff of volcano eruptions being equal to angry gods. We are surely beyond that, in general.

Let's be real. Hiding or covering all of those things that once were, has NOT been necessarily good for civilization. Lord knows... gay people have been scapegoated and abused for centuries due to abject ignorance, fear and misunderstanding human sexuality in general.

You know, just because people play certain roles, does not mean that is 'exactly' who they are. Seriously, the large numbers of social conservatives who have been OUTED as anti-gay HYPOCRITES, ought to be a real indicator that the way things were done 100, 50 or even 20 years ago... was subject to adjustment; those changes we are seeing today.

My intellect says, I agree with you; my street smarts, tell me that we generally do not agree. (A little cognitive dissonance there. Probably because I don't really know you.)

Are we finished trying to label homosexuality as "abnormal" or not? If you're still there, then we will continue to disagree and disengage the discussion.

So, how far would you go, in opposing "those people"?

If someone is gay and are expressing reasonable affections commensurate with the same... they aren't in any way responsible for a problem that is essentially contained within 'yourself'. Whatever you might say/do to oppose them, is something they absolutely have a right to defend themselves against. After all, we've not seen incidents where people have protested "heterosexuality"... although that is on display in virtually every facet of society. That is, GAY people are there amongst us all... and it isn't anywhere near fair/just, that they should HAVE to hide themselves (or their reasonable expressions).

The problem is not what you perceive to be "deviant", it is your own mind. Specifically, if someone acts in some manner that oppresses you due to your 'heterosexual' orientation or expressed sexuality, then that REALLY is a problem. Otherwise, it is in YOUR head.

Well see the above AND also accept that gay people have been a part of "traditional" ways of life for quite some time now.

 

I'm not sure what all that means, but I don't think genes are the singular determinant. I'm thinking a lot of genetically straight kids are being 'turned'. I'm not a proponent of that.

As an aside, Texas is probably ground zero for the anti-gay movement. Yet, the last time I checked, bestiality was still perfectly legally. Maybe they've made it a misdemeanor by now. What's up with that?

 

In not convinced he is homophobic, honestly I think the contrary.

 

Okay, that type of thing actually goes against my live and let live philosophy.

It wasn't really a crowd that went after them it was a couple and Oregon law. But I don't think it was right.

That seems to be the bigger picture that nobody really wants to see. It's preferential treatment of ideology. Also keep in mind it wasn't the couple that sued the bakery. It was Oregon that fined them.

Really what you need to watch for is public accommodation laws. It wasn't a lawsuit with the bakery in Oregon.

 

I don't either and my gay friends tell me it definitely isn't.

You're conflating two differing issues here. Gays and transgenders have joined together more for political expedience against the "moral" police than anything else. I'm sure the vast majority of gays have no more notion of what it means to be transgender that you or I but they do know what it means to be singled out and bullied for being different. Maybe that's where their empathy lies?

As for "normal", that's another word that gets loaded by morality. Are people "normally" gay? No. Is it "normal" for a proportion of the population to be gay? Yes. You can probably visit any class of schoolkids of any age with more than 15 members and one of them, you just know, is going to grow up to be gay. Ask any teacher about this and chances are, if they're not wearing "god" goggles, they'll tell you the same thing.

But that's it, we don't live in an ideal world. This isn't Disneyland. It's a rock floating in space and we don't know how we got here or where it's all going to end. All we have are the facts on the ground and all we can do is observe and learn. As long as people aren't harming others through being gay, autistic, blind, deaf, etc. all we can do is assume that these are natural states of being for certain members of the population. Beyond that we can examine whether or not any of these or myriad other states of being are intrinsically harmful to the individual or whether we just learn to accept their existence as a fact of our being. With gay people, we've pretty much accepted that that's the case though, admittedly, a certain number of people are having trouble catching up.

That sentence is a perfect talk radio tailspin. Where has anybody conceded that autism and homosexuality are even in the same ballpark? I know that morally "correct" people just can't accept variance or delineate fine difference in anything but that doesn't mean we roll over and allow them to control the narrative. I find the fact that we clearly haven't is a sign that we're moving in the right direction albeit at a glacial pace compared with the rest of the developed world.

Of course it is. It's how they express their love and affection for each other. It's part of a bonding process (sometimes predicating a lifetime of commitment) that most humans consider vital to their being. It's not just a mechanical action although I often wonder if for people who see it as such, that's actually all sex is? There's a lot of very thick-skinned people on here (who obviously represent a certain world view) and I find myself asking if that's all human joining is for them: a cold mechanical act of physical sex? That doesn't correlate to my experience of life but who am I to know?

I'm guessing we're talking about anal sex here? So what if people like it? Are lesbians more "normal" because that's not a big part of their sexual experience? Maybe this is just act three in a really boring and structurally disjointed morality play? No wonder people don't want to stick around for the finale. The writing's weak, the narrative's old and we all figured out the ending before people stopped rustling in their seats.

Who exactly are the "masses"? Same sex marriage is legal here and in most of the developed countries in the world. Where this is the case the majority that approve of it (not that that matters a jot) continues to grow year on year. The "masses" who believe that they're "winning" on this issue are a bunch of delusional tools who are spinning down the plug hole of historical irrelevance. Just take a trip over to the NOM website. They're still reveling in their intellectual "victories" years after DOMA was overturned, DADT ended and same-sex marriage became the law of this and many other lands. That's your "masses" right there!

We can all benefit from a moment of reflection.

 

Granny says...

... it's more like immaturity...

... arrested development - say, around age 10.