Is Jesus divine?

The scriptures are written words much of which has been disproved as time has gone on. You present your view- I present mine. You refused to read or study my posts. That shows?
Blind faith.

 

Which is about as true as the Qu'ran.

 

Not even close.

 

Depends on your source. The hatred for Joseph Smith began when he was fourteen and told local clergy that God the Father and Jesus Christ came to him when he prayed to know which Church to join. He was told by God not to join any Church because they were the Church's of men. All he did was repeat what God told him. For this he was hated. And the hatred increased until he was murdered about twenty years later and the LDS Church sought refuge in the great barren salt lake basin to escape the persecution from Christians.

 

The Koran is juvenile and ridiculous, written like a pagan trying to ape someone smart but failing.

 

Actually the Quran is far more true. It happens in history with places and peoples who actually existed. Medina and Mecca are actually cities. They do actually exist.

The Book of Mormon is not based on reality here on Earth. There is no evidence of any of the towns and peoples mentioned in the Book of Mormon. And that's not for LDS lack of trying.

 

Would you say then that the total lack of any historical proof for the existence of God, that therefore there is no God? The Book of Mormon does contain the voice of God and of his people. And as time goes on, more evidence is being uncovered for its historicity. The Book testifies of Jesus Christ. The Quran does not. The Book is supported by a dozen different witnesses as to the authenticity of the plates from which it was translated, and to the seeing of Angels and visions during the process.

 

.....and we can go on and discuss the Meadows Mountain Massacre. We could also discuss polygamy and child abuse. Christians denounce polygamy because it exploits women. Joseph Smith knew better than the Body of Christ and that is why they observe "Temple Worship" which was done away with when Jesus said "It is finished".
Also, black Americans were considered unclean until a later date when a "new prophet" declared them clean. Polygamy was done away with as the U.S. Army approached and another "new prophet" changed course there.

 

With this proposition in the OP, the quantum of proof does not even rise to the level of a preponderance of the existing evidence. Its a hell of a lot less likely than not that Jesus is 'divine'.

On my generous and most spiritually open days, I like to believe Jesus was a nice guy trying to sell 'goodness' in religious garb. Somewhere along the way he began to believe that selling himself as exceptionally close with the working authority, was the best way to go. But I have no better evidence for any of that either

 

The "massacre" was a tragic result of the violent and decades long persecution of the Church.

Polygamy was a revealed doctrine practiced by willing participants. It isn't indicative of child abuse or exploitation of women. And it wasn't illegal. When the US made it illegal and threatened to seize all Church assets and administration if they didn't comply, the Church suspended the practice.

"Temple Worship" is your personal religious belief/interpretation to which you are entitled.

Blacks were never considered unclean, and had been members of the Church since its early days. Brigham Young forbade them the Priesthood until the time should come that it should be restored to them. That time came in 1978. Blacks have always been allowed and never denied baptism or membership in the Church.

Joseph Smith and the Church of Jesus Christ LDS was hated from the beginning, long before polygamy, the priesthood restrictions, or conflicts in the western territories. FWIW, the building of Temples and the practice of ordinances are to fulfill the Elijah prophecy of sealing families together and doing proxy ordinances for our forefathers, that we might have root and branch. Elijah came to Joseph Smith and delivered him the keys to perform these things. "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch...
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse." (Malachi 4)

Temple work is crucial to the plan of salvation.

 

I agree with you that the Qu'ran has as you describe. However they are little to do with the teaching of Mohammed/Islam. This is simply Mohammeds corruption of the OT, converting it to todays Islamic teaching. What is interesting that most 'Abrahamic' religions are built on visions/dreams and 'angelic' contact with 'chosen 'people and all have different teachings claiming to be the 'true religion' of the 'last prophet'. Perhaps god keeps changing his mind? These religions use the knowledge at the time of the introduction. Modern knowledge now gives us true religions - science and archeaology. The Jewish Indian theory was a desire for American Christians to feel part of the Christian community in Europe and the Middle East. The Mormons - Joseph Smith - had a 'vision' that this was true. Another unknown angel - Moroni - a preColumbian warrior who ascended to heaven - led to golden tablets for Snith to find and which finally disappear. Odd. 'Divine revelation and inspiration' which denies previous 'divine revelation and inspiration'. The brain is a wonderful organ that controls the body functions, senses and imaginations.
There is no evidence that the 12 tribes of Israel ever existed - just one tribe in Palestine. Apart from the Bible - no Abraham or descendants, no Moses, no Joshua.

 

That is where our faith parts ways. No works are necessary for salvation. Not even "temple works". The veil was torn in two at the words of Jesus....."it is finished." Our works come AFTER salvation and they come through the works He does through us. Isn't that obvious?
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
So if I have a title of Bishop or Prophet can I boast in my works?

Our gospels are of two different meanings. Grace + anything =nothing. You cannot earn it. We receive salvation by receiving Grace period. Holiness is not found in a building. Our bodies are the living sacrifice that makes us acceptable to God when we believe in his provision. That is our temple. We worship corporately as a body. Doesn't matter where. We get married and baptized anywhere and it is sacred and sanctified when we do it with witnesses and in His name.

 

The "revealed' doctrine really wasn't so revealed or it would have been sustained! Actually, polygamy was boligamy before your "revealed" doctrine and it was practiced by the likes of Joseph Smith and other codgers that desired to replenish their bed with "young talent". Aren't you glad that Joseph didn't pull that on Mary? Or Adam on Eve?

 

That's about right.

 

Yes, he is divine, and He admitted he is also divisive.

Luke 12:51-53 “Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three.

What do you mean? Just 30 mins ago I had a quiet conversation with Jesus, - and then I paid him $30 for cutting my grass

 

You sure that isn't your own heart shining thru?

 

That is your interpretation of scripture. You glossed over the sending of Elijah to turn the hearts of the children to their Fathers and the Fathers to their children, lest the earth be smitten with a curse leaving them neither root nor branch. This is one of the purposes of temples. Elijah is just one of many angels who brought keys and authority to Joseph Smith in the restoring of the full and everlasting gospel.

 

Jesus was a Jewish preacher - nothing more. His teaching was a milder form of Judaism and most of the parables he used are concerned with the Jewish supposed relationship with Jahweh. The Gospel writers threw in a few interpolations to change this. He died because he turned the people away from the hypocrisy of the religious heirarchy who planned, and had him crucified. The nativity stories are easily disposed of if you know the Laws and Customs and background of the times and the OT.
Jesus believed in the OT stories because he had, like all Jewish children - particularly males - been taught to read and write and learn the Tanakh from the age of 5 through to adulthood. Schools were usually at the local synagogue and the teacher was what would later be called 'a Rabbi'. Jesus was an intedlligent youth who had learned well, and when presented at the Temple at adulthood and tested he proved his worth by amazing the priests at the Temple with his knowledge. Such learned pupils were often then taken under the wing of a teacher/Rabbi and given 'further' education in the Tanakh for some years, until they were able to present and discuss their own views knowledgeably with others teachers. This was the supply of future teachers. and, of course, Jesus was often called 'teacher' by his questioners.
IMO this covers some of the missing years in Jesus life.
. Teachers/Rabbis also had to be able to spend time learning a trade. They were not paid for teaching and had to take time to earn money to cover expenses during teaching periods. Although Jesus was not a priest he started his Jewish ministry at the age of 30. This was the age known as the Jewish prime of life and Priests had to wait until that age to practise in the Temple.
Jesus believed by 'indoctrination'. He had no reason not to. Christianity was by indoctrination for many centuries and not until the last couple of hundred years have people been able to forget 'hell and damnation' and seek for themselves. More and more are doing so just as Judaism is also declining as more liberal views and excavations prove the fallibilty of the Tanakh. A few years ago a Jewish newspaper put out an article which said that 50% of Jews worldwide no longer practised their faith.
The disciples and Jews were regaled with parables from the OT because - as Jesus told them - you know them. The Gentiles didn't. There's nothing in the Nativity stories, if you examine them against the Laws and customs of the day, that makes Jesus divine. And they contradict each other.

 

It is my understanding that Elijah came before "it is finished". Jesus fulfilled that dispensation. Elijah was a human being.....not an angel. Perhaps it was a demon claiming to be Elijah.

 

I have one wife, and I am faithful. Why would I desire another? Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh. I'll go with that. It's just funny these prophets you follow on the one hand says polygamy is O.k. then they change their mind.....which is it? In O.T. times a false prophet was taken out and stoned. I am aware of human nature. David Koresh had many wives. Some, very young. In Northern Az and Southern Utah there are still sects of Mormonism practicing polygamy underground. Often they are guilty of minor rape. This is a pattern set by Joseph Smith.

 

Joseph Smith was commanded by God to institute polygamy. Much later, long after Smith and his Brother were murdered by a mob of anti LDS, the US government criminalized polygamy and forced the Church to suspend the practice, which they did for the preservation of the Church. It's worth noting that a number of Patriarchs, including Moses, Abraham, and Israel, practiced polygamy. God commands his prophets to do lots of things which seem to make no sense. Many would say that God does many things that make no sense to them.

 

I find it strange that 'god' commands his many followers of all religions to do many strange and terrible things. He also gives them opposing instructions - all of which are - to their followers - the only true instructions. God must be very confused. The Bible - OT and NT, the BoM, the Qu'ran are all simply manmade/written books. Someone earlier quoted 'THE CURTAIN OF THE TEMPLE WAS RENT IN TWAIN'. of course they missed quoting the part where the earth shook and the bodies of godly men rose from the graves and entered Jerusalem (Matthew). And no mention of this amazing miraculous event anywhere else.
Most of Judaism comes from the amalgamation of earlier beliefs which leaves the NT in a similar position as it stems from OT teachings revised for Christianity. Ditto the Qu'ran. The BoM uses part of the Bible and Smith adds his own ideas. There was no Moroni, golden plates blah blah.

 

Along with Joseph Smith, there were eight witnesses to the plates, and three witnesses to hearing/seeing Angels and visions during the process of translation. And though many of them left the Church, they all held to their sworn testimonies of what they witnessed. Per my own experience, I know that God lives and that the Book of Mormon and Bible are true in spirit, regardless of how they are perceived or interpreted by people. And were it not for my own experience, I might be inclined to see it all as make believe or inconsequential to my life. But by the visitation of Gods spirit, I know that he lives and my true life is in him. I also know in vision that the LDS Missionaries are his acceptable servants. Yes people can fool and be fooled. But they can also know and tell the truth. Sincerity and receptiveness are the key.

 

So we're told. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Well yeah. It's called communication. They made an official record, and repeated it publicly a number of times over the course of their lives. The point being, it isn't supported by the word of Joseph Smith alone, but by eleven other men.