Is killing an abortion doctor murder or self defense?

Pro-life people save the most helpless people in the world - unborn babies. You know that already.

 

Normal pregnancy is not a significant risk to health (and don't insult everyone by listing such things as stretch marks). If the risk is as major as you imply then women should use birth control, and if they are not comfortable with the effectiveness of birth control then don't have intercourse. If the risk and odds are too great, then don't do it.

And abortionists always talk about the risk of pregnancy, but never talk about the risks to the mother of abortion.

 

The unborn are not people....in fact they aren't even babies.

How have they "saved" them ?

There is only ONE way and that's to take away the rights of half the population and make them breeding animals.........they haven't done that .......... and even if they could it wouldn't stop abortion....

 

That's because the risks from abortion is much lower than all the risks associated with pregnancy...and NO, I wouldn't insult women by claiming that the only effects of pregnancy is stretch marks, I left that insult up to an Anti-AbortionChoicer.

ANTI-Choicers always talk about the risks of abortion, which are minimal, but ALWAYS deny pregnancy causes harm to women....gee, I wonder why???


If a woman is required (FORCED) to carry to term what is so awful?

The fact that she then is nothing more than a piece of property.
The fact that she loses her rights.
The fact that she is nothing more than a broodmare, livestock.
The fact that she is FORCED into a possible life threatening ordeal.
The fact that she is FORCED into monetary loss......kinda like extortion.


Here's a list of your "stretchmarks" :

Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:
•exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
•altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
•nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
•heartburn and indigestion
•constipation
•weight gain
•dizziness and light-headedness
•bloating, swelling, fluid retention
•hemmorhoids
•abdominal cramps
•yeast infections
•congested, bloody nose
•acne and mild skin disorders
•skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
•mild to severe backache and strain
•increased headaches
•difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
•increased urination and incontinence
•bleeding gums
•pica
•breast pain and discharge
•swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint pain
•difficulty sitting, standing in later pregnancy
•inability to take regular medications
•shortness of breath
•higher blood pressure
•hair loss or increased facial/body hair
•tendency to anemia
•curtailment of ability to participate in some sports and activities
•infection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
(pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
•extreme pain on delivery
•hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
•continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:
•stretch marks (worse in younger women)
•loose skin
•permanent weight gain or redistribution
•abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
•pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh)
•changes to breasts
•increased foot size
•varicose veins
•scarring from episiotomy or c-section
•other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
•increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
•loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
•higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's
•newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates)

Occasional complications and side effects:
•complications of episiotomy
•spousal/partner abuse
•hyperemesis gravidarum
•temporary and permanent injury to back
•severe scarring requiring later surgery
(especially after additional pregnancies)
•dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
•pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
•eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
•gestational diabetes
•placenta previa
•anemia (which can be life-threatening)
•thrombocytopenic purpura
•severe cramping
•embolism (blood clots)
•medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
•diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
•mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
•serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
•hormonal imbalance
•ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
•broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
•hemorrhage and
•numerous other complications of delivery
•refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
•aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
•severe post-partum depression and psychosis
•research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
•research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
•research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

Less common (but serious) complications:
•peripartum cardiomyopathy
•cardiopulmonary arrest
•magnesium toxicity
•severe hypoxemia/acidosis
•massive embolism
•increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
•molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease
(like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
•malignant arrhythmia
•circulatory collapse
•placental abruption
•obstetric fistula
More permanent side effects:
•future infertility
•permanent disability
•death.

 

Ever heard of adoption? Those women don't have to raise their child (would a person who wanted to murder their child because they value their career over their baby make a good parent anyway?).

Somewhere around 1,000,000 abortions in the US each year, about 8,000 firearm homicides each year. Decreasing abortions by 1% saves more lives than eliminating 100% of firearm related homicides.

 

You can post your list of theoretical consequences 100 times, it is still nothing more than exaggerated PR - a list of extremely rare conditions with some trivial conditions thrown in to make a long list.

You probably have a greater chance of death driving your car.

 

I've heard of adoption and all those "less than perfect" kids who are still in the system

I also know that adoption isn't simple. It takes nine months out of the woman's life, the pregnancy causes permanent damage to her body, the nine months may be filled with illness and many trips to the doctor, it may ruin her financially (DUH, having a baby/medical bills aren't cheap), it may cost her her job, it may cost her career (YA, a livelihood IS necessary so Anti-Choicers don't berate her for being poor), her education may be set back or interrupted.....all so that people like you feel all warm and fuzzy....and then she hands this Very Expensive gift to someone else....that's just Stupid.

 

Like all Anti-AbortionChoicers you deny science......did you know the earth isn't flat?


PROVE THAT PREGNANCY CAUSES WOMEN NO HARM.


YOU CAN'T.


and no other Anti-AbortionChoicer ever has despite repeated requests........

 

Cute!!!

 

Self defense of another human being? What does that even mean?
Unless your a Hindu and believe in reincarnation.

 

Yup, and we still take that risk by driving our cars....and we expect medical care if we get injured driving the car.....consent to risk is not consent to injury...

 

There is a potential risk to health and life in every pregnancy. While the odds of maternal death are not great, they exist, and the only person who can morally decide whether a woman is to assume the risk is the woman herself. Why do you think it is your place to tell a woman, "You probably won't die in childbirth, so I say you must risk it"? You have seen the lengthy list of complications which lists stretch marks as one of the less serious, but even stretch marks (scars from underlying torn tissue) are not something you can morally force on someone.

We can help women have access to birth control, but we can't force them to use it, and neither can we take control of their bodies if they don't. You know very well "just don't have sex" has never worked, and why should a woman abstain because YOU don't approve of abortion?

Because abortion is 14 times safer than abortion. The best course is to reduce unwanted pregnancy to begin with by making birth control easily accessible.

 

If pregnancy is so dangerous and devastating, then don't engage in intercourse. Is sex so very important that a person would risk "permanent damage to her body", financial ruin, loss of her job, disruption of her education? You make it sound like Russian Roulette. If its that risky, then don't be so selfish, abstain from sex.

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Red herring.

Nobody ever said pregnancy causes NO harm. I said that you exaggerate the risk, and its probably more dangerous driving a car than having a baby.

 

I support the use of birth control, and education. Not only is it good for each individuals health, it will reduce abortion.

Once a woman is pregnant, there are 2 people involved - the mother and the baby. No matter how long your list of complications is, it does not warrant wanton killing of the baby. The fact a woman did not use birth control does not warrant the killing of the baby. Because a woman does not want stretch marks does not allow the killing of the baby (and really? you are really going to keep using stretch marks as a reason for abortion? abortionists are so totally desperate).

 

Actually...yes is does, according to our constitution and law. That you continuously refer to this as "Killing a Baby" does not change the fact that it is not a Baby or make your egotistical opinion any more compelling. YOU have absolutely no right to take control of someone else's body or life choices, nor does the Government except in rare circumstances.

 

No, the list is factual....PROVE IT'S EXAGERATED..........SHOW WHAT WAS EXAGERATED.....SHOW WHAT DOESN'T REALLY HAPPEN.....


NO Anti-AbortionChoicer has EVER proven that list untrue OR UNEXAGERATED.... OR ANYTHING BUT FACTUAL...... EVER.


It would be quite stupid to say women should just stop having sex.....when has the human race just stopped having sex? Women have every right to have sex and if they don't want to be pregnant have every right to get a medical procedure called abortion........they have every right to be as selfish as every other person on earth.

Some Anti-Choicers want to FORCE women to view ultrasounds because they think women are too stupid to know what "pregnant" means....how about they be forced to see the list of what pregnancy does to their bodies....

 

No, it's not a baby and you can't prove it is....it's a fetus and a woman can abort it for any reason she chooses...YOU have no control over women

And the term "abortionist" is inflammatory ....there is no such thing.


IF the fetus was declared a "person" then the woman has the right to self defense like everyone else...being pregnant doesn't mean you lose you rights as a human being...

 

By extension with the abortion doctor the assassin should kill the woman who has gone to that doctor asking to abort ... since the woman AND the doctor have agreed on the abortion. So to complete the self defense the assassin should kill the woman ... condemning to death also the fetus [!?!].

No, the proposed solution is to kill the abortion doctor and condemn to a forced pregnancy the woman. The result will be that the stress will carry the woman [who wants to abort, let's keep in mind this] to try and abort with some handmade methods [like it happened in Italy when abortion was illegal] ... final result? The woman will probably would herself causing damages to her genital organs and being no more able to become pregnant ...

This is what happened before that Italy issued a law to rule and legalize abortion.

Legal abortion: 1 birth less, but still fertile woman
Illegal abortion: 1 birth less and risk of 1 infertile woman

Which is the minor social damage? Answer and you will understand why in lay countries abortion is legal.

 

But do you support making birth control easily available? Do you support comprehensive sex education in schools? Those are proven ways to reduce the abortion rate, yet many "pro-lifers" oppose them in favor of forcing birth.

Is logical fallacy the best you have? There is no baby until birth.

"Baby, baby, baby," all lies. Abortion doesn't kill a baby.

Why is it necessary for you to trivialize an entire list of complications to "stretch marks"? Desperation? But even stretch marks are not so trivial. This is an actual photo of stretch marks after the birth of twins:



It's a complication that women with wanted pregnancies willingly accept. It isn't something you can morally force on women.

 

...And it's horrifying. That is scar tissue. If someone did enough damage to me to create scar tissue, I would be well within my legal rights to defend myself, with lethal force.

 

Well, to be fair, some women don't get any stretch marks or only very few. That all depends on the elasticity of your skin. I do think that stretch marks is a stupid reason to get an abortion.

IMO, not a very good person who would get an abortion for such shallow reasons. However, that is exactly the kind of person you probably wouldn't want to see being a parent, and that is why I wouldn't oppose that particular type of person getting one.

 

90% of pregnant women get stretch marks, but it was never presented as a reason to get an abortion. It was presented as a reason a woman can't be forced to give birth, one of an entire list of complications. No one has the moral authority to force bodily damage on others.

 

It does not matter "if some women" don't get something...that has NOTHING to do with abortion rights and yes, if a woman doesn't want stretch marks and gets an abortion that is her business....women's reasons , whether viewed as shallow, immoral, silly, meaningful, right , wrong , they are HER reasons and makes no difference to the out come of the abortion .

There are some Anti-Choicers who think being raped by your own father isn't a good enough reason for abortion ...that is why ONLY the person who is having the abortion gets to decide.

 

Well, I agree, but I can still think that a person who would abort because of stretch marks is a shallow and self centered jerk. Just because I'm pro choice, doesn't mean I have to condone this type of mindset, because I do not. I would certainly not have any respect for a person who chose to get an abortion because of stretch marks. To me, that is an extremely shallow and kind of crappy person.

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Sure, but I can give my opinion on such a person.

 

No one needs your respect......as long as they have the Freedom to have an abortion.