Is Russia about to push toward Kiev?

Perhaps it is you who should "[r]ead carefully": The former Soviet Union was quite unable to "preserve itself" when it finally collapsed, in 1991...

 

Soviet Union had a large army and lots of armor units. Technically it was possible to announce a mode of war and use the army for restoration of order. This is done in some countries from time to time. Soldiers need to obey the orders. Army is a system. If soldier doesn't obey an order in some cases he can be shot by his commander. In august 1991 army appeared in Moscow but they had no orders. Finally the coup which thought that they have support from Gorbachev realised that they are on their own... That's why the political power was removed and the local republic managment took the power. Gorbachev could arrest Yeltsin in august 1991 and armor units could make another Tyananmen. But it didn't happen. Not because it couldn't happen. Soviet army was able to perform various actions and supressing unarmed (or light armed) people is not that tough nut.

 

It's looking like the Russians and NATO will be squaring off soon. I expect conscription to be reintroduced here in the UK and the draft in the US for the upcoming war with Russia.

 

No use. The more concentrated the regiment is the more likely it is to be destroyed by mass destruction weapons. Modern war is made in press, technology, special servies... For that you don't need a draft.

 

The news this morning showed Russians moving in to the Crimean bases and helping people. None of them had any markings on their uniform.

 

Yeah...uhhh...THAT is NOT going to happen.

First of all there will be NO WAR with Russia....as the U.S, doesn't want a war....the E.U. does not want a war...and RUSSIA SURE AS HELL DOES NOT WANT A WAR!!!!

This whole things is INSANE!!!

PUTIN IS AN IDIOT!!!

We...the United States...have been spending time, money and energy doing all we can to make sure the Russian Economy grows and becomes viable to supply the Russian people with jobs as it is in THE BEST INTEREST OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE BEST INTEREST OF OUR NATIONAL SECURITY FOR RUSSIA TO REMAIN A DEMOCRACY!!!!!!!

We have been going WAY OUT OF OUR WAY....and spending Hundreds of Billions of Dollars....AND WE STILL ARE....as RIGHT NOW....the United States has Military Weapons Disposal Units in Russia and various other former Soviet Territories PAYING TO DESTROY NUCLEAR AND CHEMICAL WEAPONS....and we have been doing this since the early 1990's.

RUSSIA IS NOT A MILITARY THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES.

Since Nuclear War is UNTHINKABLE...and as Russia's conventional forces even though they have been slightly upgraded as of late....as still far too degraded and poor to be considered any type of a threat to either U.S. or NATO Forces.

As example the vast number of currently FRONT LINE operational Russian Tanks are T-72's. Over 95% of ALL OPERATIONAL FRONT LINE RUSSIAN TANKS are T-72's....as well BMP-1's,BMP-2's and BMP-3's Russian Troop Carriers are the mainstay of Russian Front Line Vehicles.

Newer Russian Tanks exist less than 150 in total number.

Russian T-72's and BMP's attempting to engage U.S. Army M1A2 Abram's Tanks, Bradley's and Stryker Vehicles would be VASTLY OUTCLASSED and even though Russian Tank Crews would increase T-72 Tank effectiveness even this would do very little to stop American Army or Marine Mechanized Divisions as the T-72 Tank Round cannot even penetrate an M1A2 Abram's Tank Armor unless it is a lucky shot and even then the U.S. Tank Crew is protected inside the Abrams even if the Abrams weapons cashe explodes as the M1A2 Abram's uses a combination of Depleted Uranium and other classified armor to protect it.

The Soviet Era BMP's are unfortunate to have been designed with their FUEL TANK attacked to the rear door of the BMP....and this design flaw can allow even Heavy Small Arm's Fire to penetrate it and explode the fuel.

But the greatest advantage U.S. and NATO forces would have over Russian Forces would be our INTEGRATED SERVICE REAL TIME BATTLEFIELD TARGETING CAPABILITY.

Unlike the Russian Military which has just NOW started to once again attempt to integrate all Russian Military Services to fight any battle...as this was attempted by Russia shortly after what is known by the Russian Military as the WARS OF SHAME....Desert Storm and the Invasion of Iraq....as the GRU made it a point for all Russian Military service branched begin to copy the U.S. Military's Integrated Service Plans....which ran into a great deal of resistance from various Russian Service Branch Leaders.

In any single Battle the U.S. Military's Integrated Services Plan will assign the RIGHT TOOL FOR THE RIGHT JOB...thus even if the Marines are on the ground U.S. Air Force A-10's and F15E's will be flying Close Ground Support along with Army Self Propelled Artillery and Army Apache Long Bow Choppers in the fray and even if necessary U.S. Navy Drones, F-18 Superhornets and Destroyer Launched Missiles all in the battle.

The Russian Military still has an Inter-service Competitive Mentality similar to how the U.S. Army competed with the U.S. Navy during WWII.

There is NO WAY IN HELL....Putin or Russia want's any part of a WAR with the United States.

AboveAlpha

 

I don't think Russia is able to do that.
Maybe they have much bigger army and more effective weapon, but... It would be very difficult for Russians to distinguish a pro-Russian activist from for example Ukrainian rebel. Imagine how much soldiers would Russia lose. Putin is a crazy one, but I don't think he is an idiot. And not everybody from Eastern Ukraine is pro-Russian. Maybe only in RT's imagination(I'm from Eastern Ukraine btw).

 

This is all about massive deposits of Natural Gas just found in the Crimea a while back to be 1000 times greater than originally thought.

Since a massive Natural Gas Pipeline system already exists in the Ukraine supplying Russian Gas to Europe it is possible that the Ukraine could use these massive Natural Gas reserves in the Crimea and underbid Russian Gas Pricing to Europe and replace Russia as Europe's main Natural Gas Supplier.

Putin fears this....but what Putin SHOULD fear is U.S. Sanctions.

AboveAlpha

 

I don't think it's only about money. Putin is trying to take at least half of Ukraine. Russia spend a lot of money to bring Russian civilians to for example Donetsk and Luhansk regions, the poorest regions of my country to show how "Eastern Ukraine want to join the Motherland". Some FSB agents were also captured all around Eastern Ukraine.
There is one interesting but dangereos thing in Russian mentality - they don't care about social standarts, salary etc, while they country has the biggest rockets and the best tanks. Putin is popular while western countries show that they respect Russia like an equal enemy.
I'm sure that sanctions would help to make Russia weaker but I think it won't stop Russian occupation of Crimea and other Eastern European lands.

 

I have to agree. I don't think sanctions will do much of anything except make Putin dig in his heels. He has an admiring audience in Russia (for the most part) but he also has his detractors and one thing, in my opinion, is that the Ukrainian overthrow of it's government is a direct threat to Russia as an example of what Russians could do. Notice how China abstained from a vote in the UN. They are afraid that Russia's example of taking over a region to allegedly protect Russians would inspire someone to do the same with some of China's regions.

 

The U.S. is in an awkward position as on one hand we have been helping Russia to obtain a strong economy as well as we have been paying and destroying all these thousands upon thousands of old Soviet Nukes and Chemical Weapons as it is in our National Security Interests to do so.

But then Putin goes and does something like this.and although we would LOVE to support the Ukraine we certainly don't want to start WWIII.

The problem with full U.S. Sanctions is that they are going to hurt the Russian People and the Russian People cannot afford to take on U.S. Sanctions. So we instituted Sanctions upon Russian Leaders which is hurting them in the pocketbook.

But this might not be enough so full economic sanctions might be instituted.

AboveAlpha

 

The Soviet Union was falling apart from within in 1991. No amount of military power could have possibly prevented that.

 

The Soviet Union was falling apart way before that!!!

By 1991 the Soviet Communist Party no longer could COW the Soviet Population with false data and lies as when a family is having a hard time simply being able to buy FOOD never mind such things we in the West take for granted such as Coffee and Orange Juice....well....by 1991 the people were just saying....IT'S OVER!!!!

Just to add a half gallon of Florida No Pulp Orange Juice in East Germany could be traded for a cheap CAR!!!!

Things like Bananas were also considered a luxury and I used to bring Levi's and Sony Walkman's for the KID'S of East German STASI AGENT'S I knew in East Berlin....and as well they would ask me to get them a AM/FM Cassette Car Stereo and I asked them..."Don't you want me to get you a AM/FM CD Player for your kid's car and they would say...NO!!! We can't get CD's here.

The non-Russian Soviet States knew things were OVER as soon as 1986.....and Russian's knew it was over as early as 87 to 88.

AboveAlpha

 

How would you explain that the referendum inside USSR showed that most people wanted to preserve it?

 

Although I have no idea what "referendum" you may be referring to, I do not know why I should need to "explain" it.

The simple fact is, the USSR imploded more than two decades ago. Nothing could have possibly changed that.

 

I believe you are confusing US government controlled propaganda vith alternative opinions and news.


Also, bringing in completelly irrelevant Pravda. Typical Yank.

No wonder. Your nation is not known to be highly educated one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_referendum,_1991

 

RT= Kremlin funded lies. They even appoint the Chief of RT.

 

Why do you hate freedom of word?

 

The Kremlin funds RT. The Kremlin chooses the chief of RT.

That's not Freedom of Speech. Its government propaganda.

 

Compared to US goverment and corporations propaganda...uh...sure.

People are allowed to have different opinions you know.

 

Perhaps you could enlighten us, and explain just how the US government might "control" CNN, FNC, NBC (including MSNBC), CBS, ABC, et al. (Oh, for the Record, President Obama--who simply despises FNC--does not seem able to "control" it...)

 

Oh, seriously, if a media despises some random talking head it doesn't mean it is independent. Don't be so primitive in your thinking.









Yeah.....clearly no connections. I guess US media are like totally independent, NSA is not spying on american citizens and Mr.President don' have a right to kill any US citizen if considered nessesary. Keep your illusions.

 

Go ahead Russia, invade more of Ukraine.

we'll just bankrupt your ass if you do.

 

One may certainly advance the case that there is a somewhat incestuous relationship between some in the media and the WHite House. But to assert (or even imply) that the mdeia simply march in lockstep with the administration is downright absurd.

If it were actually true, President Obama would not be utterly apopleptic about FNC (whom he has despised from the beginning).

 

In the times of google and wikipedia it is quite easy to go to google, type what you don't know (in this case - 'USSR referendum') and get a result
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_referendum,_1991

Everything could be different. If not then obey the fate that there is no alternative to what is happening around Russia... It is either or.