Israel, Mired in Ideological Battles, Fights on Cultural Fronts

Lol if you provide sources from all sides then why didn't you? Are you just lying your rear end off?

But I'll discuss any of these links. Happy to help.

 

Yes show me one that shows the PA did not walk away from peace initiatives as you stated.

Lol. Can't wait.

 

Your point? You ever read what this man writes? I do. Oh I get him. He wants ANYONE not loyal to Israel if possible out of his country. Your trying to make him only concerned about Arabs is hilarious. He is equal opportunity when it comes to jack asses. People like him have no favourites. You want politically correct language from him, lol, he hates everyone equally. I know people like him. All they ask for is loyalty. You clearly do not get it. You show a man like him loyalty he does not give a damn who you are. I can't say the same for you.

As for him being closer to me than you, of course. People like him taught me. They didn't teach me to agree with them and parrot them-they taught me to speak up and do the right thing. People like him do not expect me to agree with him but he expects me to adhere to a certain code of morality and you would not get it and it took me a while to get it when I was younger until I realized why people like him have scars.

You don't get where and what he has lived through and you claim to-I bare witness to it but would never claim to understand it-the deference I show is not to what you think is hatred but his sacrifice to a cause larger than his own life.

Its the same reason you can't bait me into making hateful comments about Palestinians. He and his kind taught me not to. That you don't get.

I know Bendors. They never glorified war to me.

 

Creation you made a comment to me that links I provided did not support my contention in response to you that the PA undermined the peace process.

You intimated I did not read the cites I provided and they did not bare up to contradict your blanket statement the PA never undermined any peace initiatives.

To start with let's pretend you want to ignore what Arafat got caught in South Africa on air stating and then later fully admitting, that he never had any intention of making peace with Israel and just used the talks to stall for time to strengthen the PA until it could destroy a Jewish Israel and absorb it back into a Muslim state.

Let's go to the articles I provided.

The first was from:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-admits-he-rejected-2008-peace-offer-from-olmert/

In that article which you appear to claim makes Mr.Abbas sound reasonable he admits to refusing to a peace plan on the ground
because he was not given a map he did not agree to peace.

His very words to that effect state and I quote: “He showed me a map. He didn’t give me a map,” Abbas said. “He told me, ‘This is the map’ and took it away. I respected his point of view, but how can I sign on something that I didn’t receive?”

Right. That's the reason. Sounds reasonable. Lol. He showed him but did not give him a map. Uh yah. He would have never been given a map. He would have been expected to sign an agreement without knowing what borders were being agreed to. Sure. That's exactly what would have been done by Olmert. He would wave a map, but never provide a copy.

Go on spin that one.

In the next article:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-official-palestinians-purposely-stymied-talks/

The story tells of a paper that evidences Palestinian policymakers recommended a strategy of unilateral moves “outside of the agreed negotiation framework” to Abbas as early as March, nearly two months before the April 29 deadline for the completion of peace talks so that when Obama tried at their White House meeting to persuade Abbas to make progress at the negotiations, Abbas was already bent on torpedoing the talks and following a unilateral course.

To be specific that article refers to an April 22 letter, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s national security adviser, Yossi Cohen, revealed that chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat wrote a policy paper in March in preparation for a Palestinian rejection of American mediation efforts and Israeli overtures — nearly a month before Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas made a unilateral move to sign 15 international conventions.

A possible motive for this? It could be Abbas was pissed off at what he saw wasIsrael’s refusal to honor its commitment to release the final round of prisoners.

Yep sounds reasonable. Point is, Abbas was trying to hold peace talks as leverage to release prisoners. Yep sounds reasonable. Just to talk to Abbas Israel is expected to release terrorists. Yes sir, that's reasonable.

Oh how about this one:

http://observer.com/2015/10/official-misconduct-how-mahmoud-abbas-lies-to-incite-violence/

This above article shows how Abbas is an out and out liar.

Oh let's refresh your memory about your reasonable Mr. Abbas. He claimed that Israel executed 13 year old Ahmed Mansara, a Palestinian boy and were “executing” Palestinian children.

He lied. He bold faced and out and out lied.

He claimed Israel killed a Palestinian boy in “cold blooded murder.” and held up a picture of the boy, on the ground, after having been shot, he said, by Israelis

Hell yah reasonable. What a reasonable thing to do. See? It shows how credible Mr. Abbas is. You read the article.

Right. That incident in fact l took place in Pisgat Zeev, an area located between Jerusalem and Ramallah and Mr. Abbas neglected to mention that the boy Mansara and his 15 year old cousin Hassan had, moments before that picture was taken, stabbed two Israeli boys—one who had just jumped on his bicycle after buying candy in a local candy store.

But hey you read the article. It makes Abbas someone to be trusted.

The next article,

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/co-...rafat-lied-gave-hamas-weapons-second-intifada

tells the tale of how Arafat lied and have weapons to Hamas during the second intifada while claiming he never did. Hey now, sounds reasonable to me.

Then finally I provided a post from the New York Post that shows Abbas claiming he's ripped up any agreements with Israel using the pretense its all Israel's fault, they won't release more terrorists and unilaterally withdraw settlers without first getting recognition from Abbas that Israel has the right to live in a Jewish state free of terror attacks from the West Bank.

Heck that's not reasonable. Mr. Abbas says the only peace conditions he discusses is when Israel agrees to take back in any Muslim claiming to be Palestinian and giving them land inside pre 1967 Israel. Hey never mind Israel is full of the descendants of 700,000 Jews ethnically cleansed from Arab countries. Hey never mind its full of Felashies and Jews-they can all just go f..ck themselves...Israel will just unilaterally move in millions of self-identified Palestinian Muslims so the country ceases to be Jewish and hey who needs a terror campaign-just do it-peace means agreeing to cease existing and stripping the rights of your own citizens of their land.

Yep sounds reasonable.
The article suggested; " Abbas’ tough talk could be an attempt to mask his political weakness. Hopes of setting up a Palestinian state have been derailed, and there are calls for the leader to resign and dissolve the Palestinian Authority. Without a specific deadline for taking those steps, Abbas left himself room for diplomatic maneuvers to refocus the attention of the international community on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict."

Now you want to play with me Creation really? You want to play games that the PA is not an obstacle to peace and its all Israel's fault?

Go ahead. Spin.

I won't waste another ounce of energy other than to refer people to this article on Abbas and how he can't ever agree to peace:

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3159/abbas-peace

and specifically these comments from it:

"If he wished, Abbas could have reached a deal with the governments of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni. But Abbas, like his predecessor Yasser Arafat, chose to turn down a generous offer that could have seen Israel relinquish control over most of the West Bank and east Jerusalem.

Abbas is not interested in reaching any deal with Israel: he knows that such a move would require him to make concessions. Abbas knows that Israel will never give him 100% of his demands; that is enough for him to refuse to sign any historic agreement.

Like Arafat, Abbas does not want to go down into history as the first Palestinian leader to make concessions, especially on sensitive issues such as refugees and Jerusalem....
Abbas knows that in a final deal, Israel would not permit millions of Palestinians living in refugee camps to enter the country. He also knows that Israel is planning to retain control over some parts of the West Bank and east Jerusalem.

Arafat walked away from the Camp David summit in 2000 because he had been telling his people that anyone who makes concessions to Israel is a traitor.

Similarly, Abbas has also tied his hands by constantly promising the Palestinians that he would never make concessions on the "right of return" and settlements.


Today, Abbas is not in a position that allows him to sell to most Palestinians any agreement he reaches with Israel. Even if he were to bring home an agreement that includes 100% of his demands, most Palestinians would still receive it with full skepticism because it would be coming from a leader who does not have a mandate to make even the slightest concession.

Under the current circumstances, the wisest thing to do would be to maintain the status quo until the emergence of a new Palestinian leader who would have the true courage to make peace with Israel."

 

Please 'Y' do not take that person seriously...

Here is the following by Arlene Kushner (the best journalist in Israel) Watch the two VIDEOS and enjoy the moment...
Yes there is a minority of Arabs that are <OPENLY ZIONISTS> and they would not have it otherwise. Please watch and ask 'Creation' to join.

I would like to further elaborate on the theme of Muslim Arab citizens who are loyal to Israel. I had mentioned the Zoabi clan as Zionistic, and have here two videos to share:

The first is of Sarah Zoabi. I had first seen this particular video clip &#8211; with subtitles - some time ago. She was entering a cooking contest and had to speak about herself. You can see how surprised/impressed the judges are. She speaks about the right of the Jewish people to have the land of Israel, the holy land. It&#8217;s a Gan Eden, a paradise, she says, compared to all the Arab lands. In Israel she is 100% safe. When will Arabs in Israel wake up and realize this?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3fc_1435785508

Sara Zoabi
Credit: Kesher Network

~~~~~~~~~~

And then her son Muhammad, who speaks in English, and is nothing short of extraordinary. A brave boy who received Muslim Arab threats for his position as a proud Israeli.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BHbvAKzNx8

The case of Sara Zoabi and her son Mohammad Zoabi Two Videos that have to be watched

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3fc_1435785508

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BHbvAKzNx8

 

Multiple times out of tens of thousands of times. Incredible that you use a poll that was never clear about its questions from the very start then. Seems you are quite sloppy when you use your own sources as they are lying 100% of the time and here you are dissing one that is wrong or, possibly only mistaken less than one tenth of a percent of the time. Using your logic where twice out of thousands would mean that one terrorist in Palestine means they all are terrorists.

Thank you again for bringing this up. What exactly was the question? And while you're at it, what exactly was the answer where the results were garnered that Israel is an apartheid nation and not simply racist like most other nations of the world or, at the very least, the Middle East?

""South Africa&#8217;s de Klerk: Israel not an apartheid state""


""De Klerk: &#8216;Odious&#8217; to compare Israel to apartheid South Africa""

Doesn't matter if he was slitting black babies throats and raping women point is he knows what apartheid is as he took it apart and received a Nobel Prize for it.

 

LYING is not a sin in Islam

<<Remember..., In the Muslim religion lying is not a sin. HB>>

>>>Isn't that a slander,HB<<<

No this is not a slander for this is the truth...

In his book <The Arab Mind Considered> John Laffin, a well known writer on war and military history, has studied the Arab-Israeli conflict from the time of the first Middle East war in 1948, and he has established a reputation on both sides for being objective.
John Laffin emphasizes between many on the subject of shame and lying two prominent Arabs&#8230;
Dr. Sania Hamady, herself an Arab and one of the greatest authorities on Arab psychology and the medieval Moslem theologian al-Ghazali, quote:- (page 91)

Because social pressure in his home environment is constant the individual conscience soon weakens. Hamady&#8217;s observation that &#8220;Lying is a widespread habit among the Arabs [who] have a low idea of the truth&#8221; is merely an echo of the medieval Moslem theologian al-Ghazali.
&#8220;Know that a lie is not wrong in itself, but only because of the evil conclusions to which it leads the hearer, making him believe something that is not really the case. Ignorance sometimes is an advantage, and if a lie causes this kind of ignorance it may be allowed. It is sometimes a duty to lie&#8230; if lying and truth both lead to a good result, you must tell the truth, for a lie is forbidden in this case. If a lie is the only way to reach a good result, it is allowable. A lie is lawful when it is the only path to duty&#8230; We must lie when truth leads to unpleasant results, but to tell the truth when it leads to good results.&#8221;
The Arab has no scruples about lying if by it he obtains his objective. His conscience possesses &#8216;an interesting elasticity&#8217;.
To be frank does not pay among people who admire the clever and despise the meek. Unquote (Dr. Sania Hamadi)

 

Some extremists are more equal than others perhaps!

 

Is this an ends justify the means argument.

Looks like he plays good Arab, bad Arab as well.

Those who collaborate with the colonists are good Arabs, whilst those who defend their land against foreign invaders are fifth columnists!

People who escaped christian persecution in Spain to live safety for hundreds of years in Jerusalem coexisting peacefully with Arabs are now hero's when they turn on their hosts and help the foreign invaders!

 

Yes and apparently I'm not to be called a moderate now because I oppose recognition of Israel as a Jewish state. Something few people in the world ashe to either.


Lol

 

Ok so you two get together to giggle over your views. Now what? No one cares. You two need to understand this is not about what either of you
thinks. Can the two of you go a post without making it about your self reflections?

How long do you giggle and get all warm an fuzzy at that mirror every day.

What do what either of you think have anything to do with this thread?

Here let me help:

self-ab·sorp·tion
noun

1.
preoccupation with one's own emotions, interests, or situation.
2.
PHYSICS
the absorption by a body of radiation which it has itself emitted.

source: Merriam-Webster dictionary

Oh trust me it aint physics.

Here you need to discuss yourselves further try:

The Analysis of The Self, by Heinz Kohut, M.D,

Although between you and me, I think there's only 1 of you.

Unless of course your are conjoined.





https://books.google.ca/books?hl=en...=self absorption personality disorder&f=false

 

Thank you for proving my point so wonderfully!

Today Creation we are conjoined, ohh err misses!

Actually it is you Yetzerhara who keeps making it about personalities as your posts prove.

 

Oh look Ria Raeb has asked me questions so let me respond to his comments I place in quotation marks from his post 1153:


"Looks like he plays good Arab, bad Arab as well."

No but it does look like you are once again telling me what you think and unable to different your beliefs and thinking processes from
mine. It looks as if your narcissistic defect blinds you from being able to understand that when you preface your remarks with "looks like"
it means its your thought not mine but once again you try make it one and the same as mine.

No Mr. Raeb I am not you and your thoughts are not my thoughts. No Mr. Raeb I do not define any Palestinian as you do as good
or bad. For that matter I do not interchange the word Arab for Palestinian, I know the difference.

I do not define anyone as good or bad depending on whether they conform to my beliefs. You do that with Jews and now of course want to
lower me to your level of narcissistic defect where I can't accept any opinion other than one that reflects back my own.

No Mr. Raeb unlike you I don't label people iwith narcissistic and simplistic labels.

You then stated:

"Those who collaborate with the colonists are good Arabs, whilst those who defend their land against foreign invaders are fifth columnists!"

The above are your thoughts and your beliefs which you then try suggest are mine. They again evidence your narcissistic defect.

You stated:

"People who escaped christian persecution in Spain to live safety for hundreds of years in Jerusalem coexisting peacefully with Arabs are now hero's when they turn on their hosts and help the foreign invaders "

The above is babble. Who are these people were who escaped Christian persecution?

Who are these people and what hundreds of years do you talk about?

What you now are into cryptic references?

Yah I know. It wouldn't dawn on you that your beliefs are not universal truths everyone knows already-I mean come on, you don't need to explain yourself
its oh so obvious. It can't possibly be someone would not think like you already and need an explanation.

Lol you narcissistic defect is at the point now where you don't complete your thoughts you just assume they are understood. That's some sense of universal self.

Now this "turn on their hosts and help the foreign invaders.." do you refer to aliens from outer space. Who is they, who are their hosts and who are the foreign invaders?

Yah yah, I know people have to already know. People can't possibly not have the same thoughts as you. You don't need to clarify you can just throw out
the babble and no translator is required.

Good Lord man, can you finish one sentence?

 

No in fact I asked you to stop making posts about you. I did not initiate the references to yourself you did.

Again you show an inability to differentiate what I said from what you said and did.

Its par for the course. Its what you do. You and Raeb can't differentiate what you do from what others do.

Its all one big cluster phack of selfness.

Now get back to me if you have anything to discuss about the thread not you.

 

Ria if you want to get into a competition about whose pee pee is bigger try someone else thanks. From where I sit, you don't
measure up and you know that.

Can you please discuss the thread topic not your measurements.

 

I keep telling you, I do what I want to do according to forum rules, you have no say, learn it and live with it.

 

From where you sit, you are blind, it is an anonymous forum, when (as you frequently do) you make personal remarks you are pissing into the wind, with the well known results, that's not rain you know!

 

Yep just as you and Creation presume to tell Jews who they are and what nationality they are allowed to be?

How does it feel?

 

Here we go another thread about you.

Raeb I respond to your personal remarks throwing them back at you to challenge them and point out how pointless and meaningless they are.

You bet I throw them back. You bet if you put crap on my lawn I am going to throw it back. So wipe your face.

This "you are pissin in the wind" comment. Once again you show you are unable to differentiate your thoughts from mine and you misappropriate my words and pass them off as your own.

Listen, if they were missing their target you wouldn't be continually writing back and responding now would you.

Remember you supposedly are on here to talk about Israel doing bad things not dwelling on your hurt feelings.

If you have nothing to discuss about bad bad things Israel does move on. Psst, don't stand down wind. Makes you an easy target for my Zionist demon spray.

 

Word Salad

- - - Updated - - -

I would tell you but you would just accuse me of making it about my feelings again. HINT I enjoy winding some people up, usually prima dona's.

 

On Israels Right to Exist!

So, when our interlocutor says, &#8220;Don&#8217;t you support Israel&#8217;s right to exist,?&#8221; most of us freeze and then retreat.

And that is exactly the effect desired by those posing the question.

But of course criticizing someone&#8217;s or some thing&#8217;s comportment is not the same as seeking their death and destruction. To portray these two activities as being one in the same is nothing short of absurd.

It is similarly absurd to speak&#8212;here again I am referring to the above-mentioned question/rejoinder&#8212;of a &#8220;right&#8221; existing in isolation from other values and concerns.

Every social or political &#8220;right&#8221; is necessarily constructed upon a matrix of tradeoffs. My &#8220;right to live&#8221; and my &#8220;right to pursue happiness&#8221; are necessarily and without exception mediated by a need to be cognizant of, and responsive to, the rights and needs of others around me.

So the real question when it comes to Israel (and every other national polity for that matter) is under what specific legal and moral conditions&#8212; both in relation to its geographical neighbors and all those subject to its forms of organized power&#8212;can and should be permitted and/or encouraged to perpetuate its present modes of existence?

And this, of course, is the very conversation that the ridiculously unspecific and often smugly issued challenge regarding Israel&#8217;s &#8220;right to exist&#8221; is specifically designed to head off.
- See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2016/03/zioni...129-f12a7a27a8-398529965#sthash.TNaX5yVn.dpuf

 

I like the splattergun approach. Why make one accusation against Palestinians when you can make fifteen in one post eh?

So Abbas is supposed to have scuppered a deal by claiming he wasn't shown a map. And that's supposed to be unreasonable?

So if olmerts approach was indeed more credible why was there not any more than this? Where were the negotiating teams? Why no announcement? Indeed why are we to believe any of this ever took place in this way?

Moreover why indeed was there no definitive map proposal?

And indeed we are to believe this accusation from a man then indicted.

 

We are not talking about <immorality> here but rather survival.
Why should Israel suffer from a <squatting> element on it soil? I rather see that they leave or fight to remain on Jewish realm... I should be called a <pacifist> since I do not want Arab Blood Spilled here... Let them go live with their brethren!