It’s Time to End Magical Thinking About Russia’s Defeat

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Lil Mike, Nov 17, 2023.

Tags:
  1. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Messages:
    32,956
    Likes Received:
    7,587
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, because we were starting to go out more and our own oil producers were still stuck in Covid Restriction mode. In other words, less supply, more demand equals higher prices at the pump. Simple economics.
     
  2. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    76,895
    Likes Received:
    51,626
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Now that the War Mongers have another war, they seem to be losing interest in Ukraine.
     
    Lil Mike, yangforward and ButterBalls like this.
  3. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    57,010
    Likes Received:
    16,798
    Trophy Points:
    113
    ANah bidens down of the pipe line, and constant harping about ending fossil fuels usage in this country didn't have anything to do with that
     
    ButterBalls likes this.
  4. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2017
    Messages:
    45,662
    Likes Received:
    26,746
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Maybe things like this are why Putin remains so "popular."

    Russia court convicts woman for replacing supermarket price tags with antiwar slogans

    TALLINN, Estonia -- A Russian court on Thursday convicted an artist and musician for swapping supermarket price tags with antiwar messages, sentencing her to seven years in prison in one of the highest-profile cases involving the recent crackdown on free speech.

    Sasha Skochilenko was arrested in her native St. Petersburg in April 2022 and charged with spreading false information about the military after replacing price tags with ones that decried Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

    “The Russian army bombed an arts schools in Mariupol. Some 400 people were hiding in it from the shelling,” one read. Another said, “Russian conscripts are being sent to Ukraine. Lives of our children are the price of this war.”

    A customer at the supermarket who found the slogans reported them to authorities.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...woman-protesting-war-ukraine-latest-104939508

    The price of expressing your dissatisfaction with Vlad, and the war, is 7 years in the Gulag.
     
  5. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2017
    Messages:
    45,662
    Likes Received:
    26,746
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Gee, I wonder if Putin's "popularity" has anything to do with things like this?

    The Nobel committee said Novaya gazeta, which it described as "the most independent newspaper in Russia today," has defended freedom of speech in Russia "under increasingly challenging conditions."

    The committee hailed the paper's "critical attitude towards power" and its "fact-based journalism and professional integrity," which it said "have made it an important source of information on censurable aspects of Russian society rarely mentioned by other media" -- including corruption, police violence, unlawful arrests, and electoral fraud.

    Novaya gazeta has faced "harassment, threats, violence, and murder" since its start, with six of its journalists being killed, including Anna Politkovskaya, whose reporting exposed high-level corruption in Russia and rights abuses in the North Caucasus region of Chechnya.

    https://www.rferl.org/a/nobel-peace-prize-muratov-novaya-gazeta/31499206.html

    Sasha Skochilenko got off easy. At least she wasn't killed. If I were a Russian contacted by a pollster I'd be all in for Vlad too.
     
  6. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Messages:
    32,956
    Likes Received:
    7,587
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is not the pipeline, it is the refinery. YOu can have all the pipelines you want, but if the refinery is not working at full capacity or near capacity to meet demand, it won't help. You obviously don't have a clue how the gas economy works.
     
  7. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    57,010
    Likes Received:
    16,798
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And it's not working at full capacity because there isn't enough oil coming in because ESG makes investment like those needed to make the switch over from winter to summer blends more costly and slower and all but freezes development of new sources
     
    ButterBalls and yangforward like this.
  8. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2022
    Messages:
    5,724
    Likes Received:
    3,172
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I support Ukraine 100% and I think US should support them all the way.

    Having said all that, I think you are right. I did some reading the past few days including DOD assessment of current status. DOD don’t think Ukrainian army can gain any more land they lost to Russia.

    Truth is no one ever thought Ukraine could survive this long. US assessment was RED army would take Ukraine in two months.

    I think US and EU should convince Ukraine to end the war and give up 20% Russia occupied and make peace with Russia. However, keep economic sanction as it is, and EU completely became energy independent from Russia. May be, may be that will presser Putin or Putin is 71, he is not going to be leader of Russia that long.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2023
  9. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2022
    Messages:
    5,724
    Likes Received:
    3,172
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Apart from MAGA , everyone in America – progressive, republican, conservative everyone wants to support Ukraine. Not supporting Ukraine or Israel has far more consequences to US then National debt.
     
    FreshAir and freedom8 like this.
  10. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    16,406
    Likes Received:
    7,071
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Dream your dream.
     
  11. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    15,511
    Likes Received:
    5,411
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Leftists fight the oppressive US government. Leftists support the oppressive Hamas government.
     
    Ddyad and ButterBalls like this.
  12. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    15,511
    Likes Received:
    5,411
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Just like losing the Vietnam war had consequences. I’ve heard that BS lie before.
     
    ButterBalls likes this.
  13. freedom8

    freedom8 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,844
    Likes Received:
    1,111
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Wrong. The Ukrainians would already have kicked the Russians out by now, had they received, on time and in adequate quantities, the weapons they were promised by their "friends", i.e. USA, UK, European Union, and a couple of others.

    Besides, for some strange reason, they were denied some crucial equipment, like Leopard tanks, given in ridiculously low numbers, and F16s for which the US agreement was unduly delayed, IMHO, and hence they even haven't received yet today.
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  14. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    3,344
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I looked at the map of the areas Kyiv was attacking, and they received ample quantities,
    even allowing for the amount they sold on the black market.

    They were on a fools errand.

    And Russia was fighting for it's existence and they weren't.
     
    ButterBalls likes this.
  15. freedom8

    freedom8 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,844
    Likes Received:
    1,111
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We should let Ukraine decide about that; it appears they still want the Russians out.
    Besides, you're losing sight of the fact that the money we spent is mostly going to our industry, and not directly to the Ukrainians. And each russian tank or other weapon the equipment we send them helps them to destroy is weakening the russian army, which might prove handy in the future.
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  16. freedom8

    freedom8 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,844
    Likes Received:
    1,111
    Trophy Points:
    113
    For your information, it's just the other way around: the Ukrainians are on their own country fighting to get the Russians out!
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  17. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,918
    Likes Received:
    21,226
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not exactly. Remember this all started because ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine don't want to be in Ukraine anymore. And I'm sure loyal Ukrainians would've been happy to let them leave, except the ethnic Russians werent willing to leave behind their property. This is, ultimately, a civil war, and we're helping Ukraine prevent secession. Some look at it as helping Ukraine oppress their domestic dissidents...
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2023
    Lil Mike, yangforward and ButterBalls like this.
  18. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    57,010
    Likes Received:
    16,798
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Don't read the news Much thats the first thing the Ukes did was ship the women and kids to poland for safety's sake which was damn smart of them. As for big pharma and almost everyone but big oil. that money has been going to dems for years.
     
    Ddyad and ButterBalls like this.
  19. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    57,010
    Likes Received:
    16,798
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And lets not forget that the Russians are largely there because of Joe Stalin
     
    Ddyad and ButterBalls like this.
  20. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    51,406
    Likes Received:
    37,773
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They "corrupt grubmint" is enriching itself. If they can they will keep this money grab going forever..

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ight-ukraine-russia-military-aid/11271555002/
     
  21. freedom8

    freedom8 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,844
    Likes Received:
    1,111
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In 1991, a majority of Ukrainians, including in every russian-speaking province, and in Crimea, voted for an independant Ukraine.
    That enraged Putin who started to foment trouble in these russian-speaking provinces, including sending russian troops disguised as local civilians.
    Putin actually created the problem and, since Ukraine was resisting that attempt to secession, he decided to invade Ukraine in February 2022.
     
  22. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Messages:
    32,956
    Likes Received:
    7,587
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is not working full capacity because of the labor. It takes labor to produce raw crude oil into gasoline, diesel fuel, jet fuel, etc at the refinery. Labor demand is growing faster than labor supply. If we cut legal, or even illegal immigration further, with our current birth rates being as they are, that labor market will be tighter than ever in a aging US population. Although we have more prime workers entering the workforce, it cannot keep up with the number of people who are eligible to retire actually retiring. That is what is causing the labor market being so tight, not only for refineries, but elsewhere too, from restaurants to professional jobs. Our current oil production has also peaked, but that has more to do with the labor shortages at the refineries than oil pipelines or new drilling sites.

    https://macrohive.com/charts-of-the...d still growing,vehicles closed down over 50%.
     
  23. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2017
    Messages:
    45,662
    Likes Received:
    26,746
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It is undeniably true that US and NATO aid is tempered by the knowledge Putin will use nukes if he feels the scales have become imbalanced due to foreign assistance to Ukraine.
     
  24. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    57,010
    Likes Received:
    16,798
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No fewer oil rigs means the presidents war on fossil fuels is having the expected affect. Fewer drilling permits issued means less drilling, means less work for refineries. Refineries are highly automated only twice a year is there a huge spike in labor demand and that is because of the switch over to summer and winter blends. Note oil always seems to peak when the government for whatever insipid reason restricts drilling.
     
    yangforward likes this.
  25. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,918
    Likes Received:
    21,226
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You skipped over the part where we funded a political revolution against the Russian-friendly and democratically elected govt of Ukraine. A revolution that actually advanced literal neo-nazis into their parliament, btw.

    Why is Ukraine wanting to be more independent from Russia more legitimate in your view than ethnic Russians in the east wanting to be more independent from Ukraine?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2023
    yangforward likes this.

Share This Page