It Is Okay To Tell Your Kids There Is No God?

that underlined item is the best EXAMPLE a parent could represent. It is the closest to truth and cleanest than any post on the thread. (that i have observed)


That is a perfect approach for any Mommy, in guidance, on that subject.

A lesson has been learned.

when are you going to be a mommy Makedde (even if you are in love with another, you still can without being touched by another (test tube))

just be sure to be just as honest with your child on all subjects; "Mommy like's a "sherry" but normally a mommy is with a 'larry".......to make a baby!

Inside, i know you have it....... it is one of the reasons you are giving your time moderating this forum; you actually care about people.

 

Why?

It's going to happen. Your child is going to be exposed to concepts of God, its as inevitable as being exposed to the color blue. They are going to be in school, etc. with other children, they are going to stumble upon a Bible study or a converstion, see it in the news, etc., and they are going to wonder about what it is. And they will be told.

#1 - people who are willing to share their faith are people who are sharing something about themselves. THat is a very good thing when someone trusts you enough to do this. That is not 'preaching' it is sharing - and it is no different than an atheist explaining what lead them to conclude there is no God (those few who will do that anyway).

As I have said, for some reason, I can talk to Buddhist Monks and Muslim Mullahs about their faith, and, through mutual respect, find that our faith, though different, when shared honesty is the basis of strong friendships.

If your child comes home and says her little friend Jenny is going to church camp and she is excited about it and wants to go too ....? What then? Is little Jenny now a threat rather than a friend to your child?

#2 - What exactly does mummy believe? THis is the point that I do not think many atheists get, and teh continuous angry reactions that come from requests to explain thing. For example, (and this is not specific to you Mak)most people take the 'agnostic-atheist' talk of not actually claiming anything and therefore not requireing proof but being perfectly and logically proven .... that is bad enough foust upon other adults, but when you see your own children confused by such concepts ... what then?

Whatever your faith, your children will challenge it in very unexpected ways, and one of those ways, that this questions brings to the fore, is the oft debated topic of what exactly atheism is - and how it is explained to children who then go out and encounter religion in world filled with it.

THe question is: does atheism prepare children for that reality is a positive manner?

IMO, that is possible when we see atheist leaders and teaching points from people like Sagan and Nitzche, it is dangerously out of whack when we see what amounts to the lies of omission from Hitchens and Dawkins. And so the question once again returns to ... what do atheists teach their kids?

For example, I constantly see atheists, when the subject turns to things central to our faith (like compassion and love), respond with, "Well, God is not the source of that!"

Well, what is then? Your own children are going to ask you.

 

We don't have to prove anything. It is those who claim that a god exists who must provide the proof.

 

I wish the God 'invented' by man would come down to earth and pay for his (her?) sins:

- the millions killed, tortured and mutilated in the name of God, by both Christians and Muslims over many centuries;

- the untold suffering inflicted on thousands of innocent people classed as heretics, by both Christian and Muslim religions (in the name of God), with the former religion burning to death those classed as such;

- the numerous innocent children sodomised by Catholic priests;

- the Jews who were persecuted relentlessly over many centuries by the Christian churches;

- the subugation of women by both religions, but especiallly the Muslim religion, which still insists its women walk around in public dressed in a shroud.

etc etc etc!

A pox on both their houses!

 

And those who claim that God does not exist have the same burden of proof.

If you cannot, then your claim, derision, animosity, is all based on ... nothing.

We already knew that, for some reason you think having zero evidence results in total proof. Of course, atheists are unable to figure out why Santa Clause is not real either, and are similiarly unable to apply logioc to discern why people believe in God but not Santa or magical pasta.

It isn;t about truth for you guys. It never was, and when you try to sell that crap to your own kids .... well, maybe when you cannot scream at your own kids, call them morons, rapists, and genocidal maniacs .... perhaps then you will realize just how wrong, and often abusive, the claims of atheism really are.

Atheism was not always this way, and it will not long remain this way. Eventually, people stand up to bullies - and that goes for both theists and real atheists who get tired of militant atheists spewing illogic and stating it is better than religion.

I mean how nice, "No worries Son, there is no God, so go take a (*)(*)(*)(*) on those Christians praying in the corner, who cares is they are eight year old girls!"

 

See above.

Stalin.

Thanks for the hypocrisy. And the standard ignorance.

Not content to slur 'religion' with calls of murder, who will slur Islam as well. Whabbist Sects are the ones who do that to women, I suggest you visit Pakistan, Iraq, Turkey, Egypt, Indonesia, etc. where you will see all you have are sterotypes and bigotry.

That, unfortuantely, is often passed on from parent to child, but, the real world and a fresh perspective of children often break such patterns of abuse and deliberate misrepresentation.

 

No, those who do not believe in a god do not have to prove anything.The burden of proof is on those who make the declaration that a god exists.

For example, If a person makes a declaration 'I saw a person steal a piece of jewelery from a shop', it is he/she who must provide the required proof, beyond all reasonable doubt,of course. Sanctimonious preaching will no longer suffice!

 

They can stumble across a Bible study, but I will not be allowing them to attend until they are much older. I want my kids to be informed, but I don't want them led. I want them to make up their own minds, but not as children. Children are very impressionable.

My child will not be going to a church camp. If your child said that her friend Jenny was going to atheist camp, would you allow your child to attend? Of course not, and neither would I allow my child to attend an event that I do not feel is necessary for her/his development.

That there is no God. What else can you say besides the truth?

 

I don't understand the question. Why wouldn't it be?

 

because wingnuts have no right to lie to Her child.

ie...... it is NOT OK to lie to a child

and anyone on this section of the forum has you pegged by your opinions....................

No...... perhaps ..."we are going hang gliding, bungy jumping and you are going to learn how to fly a space ship with lazer beams while jenny is going to a camp where they are doing some type of religious book stuff"

Why would any kid like to be lied too? You cant claim that having fun requires religion.

that is irrelevant................ all a wingnut can do is hold a book and in your case, the revised revision with the revisions of the last new new revised rendition.

But it did not teach you integrity and being honest to your child. it taught you how to lie and mislead and you are okey dokey with doing it to a child now.

that is a moronic comment.

ie.... labeling an atheist, simply for not wanting to lie to a child.

How many see how the bigots work?

YES....... Mak, shared an integrity that she is aware the child will be exposed but that HER (Big Mak) opinion is that she aint interested in the opinions of 'them'.

she did not claim as being an atheist

nor start a negative (that's my job; slapping the liars around)

Seems mak shared the proper method. Dont be mean, share your opinion and let bishadi beat the crap out of the idiots.

we know................. mankind created me!

 

Who is doing the not just the sanctimonious preaching, but the whining and castigating too boot?

The fact that you think a burden of proof does not result from your claim means you fundamentally do not understand teh rules of logic. They don;t change just because you 'think' there is no God. (Notice how the total lack of evidence means your opinion is nothing more than an opinion?) But, given the horrific state of knowledge about the actuality of religion that flows from angry atheists, I guess a lack of understanding of logic makes sense.

All it really means is that atheism is deliberate ignorance and anger. Enjoy your faith, your kids will see it for what it is.

 

Why?

Is religion dangerous? If a family prays at dinner, would that mean that your daughter could not attend because it is ... impressionable?

You do understand that at the end of the day, she would still be your daugher and she would still be coming home to you - where she would get most of her impressions?

Again, what WILL shape your daughter in this circumstance? She is going to see mummy anxious about something and then she is going to see her 'friends' who are, for the most part, happy, normal people.

And this is key Mak, families are a blessing. I have no doubt that atheists love their children and that many, yourself included are wonderful human beings. But there is no other organization out there that places as much emphasis on the family as churches do. None. The vast majority of the time we spend is on being better husbands, better fathers, better people in a groups that is trusted and oriented on keeping us on our chosen values.

That just does not happen in atheism. I realize at this point that many atheists will again scream that families are not something specific to religion, but there is no other organization on earth that spends as much time and focus on families as most churches do.

And when your daughter finds this, and she will (you are not the type of person to deny your children exploration and opportunity) then the he or she is going to wonder why something that is so focused on family as a priority makes mummy uncomfortable?

We remain impressionable all our lives, but I will also say there is a point at which we also simply become set in our ways and simiply obstinate.

In this circumstance, the worst thing your daughter is going to realize is that these kooky people who believe in God are, for the most part, very kind, very honorable, and very deeply committed people.

Now, contrast that will diligents illiterate scrawl on this thread and tell me that your children, raised in your intellect, will not be similiarly impressed?

There is a fundamental difference here.

#1 - please take a look at what most atheist web sites say about 'us'. From Hitchens to atheist.org (which has sparked many a thread in this forum - but is curiously not read by any atheists, another debate I suppose), and what they teach is not atheism - it is castigation of religion. I would never send my child to something that I know is going to teach them that mummy and daddy are evil, that we are the cause of things like rape and genocide.

THis may be a shock Mak, but Bible camp does not teach these things about atheists. Not sending you child to such a camp is reasonable.

#2 - What about educational opportunities. I would be among the first to allow my child to attend a philosophical conference that heavily featured atheist philiosphy. If my child wanted to attend a concert that heavily featured atheist like the one at Fort Bragg, more power to him. He will probably come home confused, wondering why there are people who sing about there not being a God and castigating people he knows to be good people.

And that provides an opportunity to make a case that I have long made on this forum, and it indeed made in the Bible. Atheism is not in and of itself a bad thing. We must be given free will and some people, be it through anger, conceit, lack of interest, etc. deny God for reasons that are honest - and they, like actual atheist philophers, spend times on constructive purposes. Others, quite frankly, just appear to be jerks.

This simply provides an opportunity to educate about ideology and about how ideology does not excuse poor behavior. A reminder that character counts, and that we should not judge someone simply by their chosen beliefs - but their actions.

All our children will see good and bad people of all faith choices - but the ultimate faith choice is theirs to make. No matter what faith choice children make, and least in my house, they will always be loved.

How can it be the 'truth' if you cannot prove it?

A reminder Mak, I was an atheist. Quite frankly, and too be honest, I could run rings around most of the atheists on this forum when I was at my height. Just as I make atheists go apopletic now, so too did I make Christians and others blow a gasket.

I was wrong.

There is something in Christianity called the Holy Ghost of Spirit. It is how God communicates with us, but, it is a whisper, not a shout and it is easy to ignore if we so choose it. It can be heard if we listen for it.

If you think there is no God, then open your mind and open your heart - and ask him for proof. I did, and it was not until I opened my heart that I got the proof I asked for - and I got it in a away that I cannot deny. In a way that was, for me, utterly perfect. It continues to shape my faith as my relationship with God grows stronger.

That proof was not a chart, it was not mathematical proof, or even a miracle. It was the answer to the question I asked him at the time and place where and when I most needed it. And I am not special. I am not the only person to have experiences like this - far from it.

The only thing it took for me to abandon atheism, to be ashamed of my conduct as an atheist (and quite frankly Mak, I was not nearly as nice as you) was an open mind.

I know science better than almost any atheist in this forum. I know atheist philosophy better than almost any atheist on this forum. I DO know history better than any atheist on this forum. I know the reality of battle so often catigated by atheists on this forum. And I know the power of denial - and of faith.

The 'truth' is that atheism is an opinion. An often constructive opinion and end, and one that, when honest, is something I respect as I do any other honest faith choice. But it is not 'truth', it is merely a faith choice that can be taken for good or worse.

The best thing we can teach our children is to be open and honest people, filled with compassion and understanding. I just shared a small portion of a defining event in my life, and with you at least, I would share the whole thing. It is not an attempt to convert you, it is because I trust you. Knowing the reality of the event would help you understand me as a person, and in accepting it - well, its a good thing. It no different than me saying, "Mak, I fully understand why you are atheist, but, most important is the fact that you are a very good person."

The most important thing to teach ones children is probably something as simple as saying, "I understand, I can see why this is important to you, and I respect your opinion."

 

The God I believe in is real.

Because we are human. Humans are gullible and impotent, at times. Except of course, you, oh so superior atheists, who are above the rest of humanity

 

So I admit that Christianity is microscopically less evil than Stalinism. The matter is settled.

 

To believe something is to admit you could be wrong. Otherwise, you would know. But since you don't know, you believe. Hence you might be wrong. Hence you are at least partly in doubt about whether the God you believe in is real or not.

Quite. Religion is only an example of gullibility, but the hard part to face is that religion as it is commonly understood was specifically designed to take advantage of the gullible.

 

As many have said, I am siding with truth. The way I have handled it with my 4 year old, who my family insists on trying to indoctrinate, is with truth.

Nobody knows. Most people believe in one God or another. Some believe in many Gods, and some don't believe in any Gods. Nobody can quite decide in any religion what is correct... for instance Christians, people who believe Christ was the son of God, and died for their sins, disagree strongly which is why you have so many different subsets... like Catholics, and Methodists, and Babtists... which believe a set of the same things. Mommy and Daddy don't believe in any of those religions, and mommy doesn't really believe that a God is possible. Daddy doesn't know if there is a God... so... just in case... daddy is the best person he can possibly be, and always tries to be good. If that isn't good enough for a God... then daddy has no use for one.

People will try and tell you stories, because everyone wants you on their side... that doesn't make them true. If you are told stories, and want to talk about them... mommy and daddy know more about those stories than most of the people telling them.

You should make up your own mind... but we are always here to answer questions... and some questions we don't know the answers to.

 

Religion isn't evil and neither is atheism.

Running around trying to call people evil based on their fauith choice is just plain stupid. It is the result of deliberate ignorance and nothing else. No self respecting atheist, convinced by logic, should tolerate such nonesense - much less practice it.

 

Then what is the point of your Stalin reference? When the question boils down to which side has the higher body count, both sides lose.

If your faith is a choice then you aren't applying logic are you? If logic dictates that you must accept this faith versus that faith, and you accept logic, then you will select the appropriate faith. A logical selection is not a choice.

I may be nitpicking your use of the term "choice" but I don't think so, as the word "choice" is often used by Christians (and those of other specific faiths) as a weapon against non-members.

If you want to argue that you are required to be Christian based on your experiences, fair enough as long as you allow that I am required to be an atheist based on mine.

 

THe point is that your ideology, without safeguard, is an likely to be hijacked by the unscrupulous as any other. In fact, that you think this is not possible at all means it is more likely to happen because you are not on guard when the exploitation arrives.

But this isn't about that is it? Its about using death to insult other people, and that is simply wrong. POinting out the absurdity of the double standard to denounce others should be clear - at least if such observations were born of rationality anyway - but we already know they are not.

When you have many open paths, you still make a choice.

I went with the one that is closest and best represents the relationship I have with God. Others have made different choices, just like not every man wants to marry the same woman - go figure.

You made a choice to you know? Apply your standard to your poistion before you apply it to others please.

It is choice. There is nothing else to it. If you see it as a nefarious intent ....

No one has ever denied this.

The question, as I have long asked is why so many atheists insist on being delieberately insulting of and horrifically misrepresenting of OUR faith? To have a different opinion is one thing. To accuse of of murder and genoicide with one hand and then deftly excuse Stalin on the other?

That is not atheism - its just straight up hypocrisy. I can, and indeed will, accept atheism - but hypocrisy and deliberate information about my faith? What make you think ANYONE should accept that?

 

I don't think that's true. A scientific ideology has built in skepticism. Not all ideologies are created equally. But to me even stranger is that you would think they are.

Only in a semantic sense. Whether by logic or not, a choice dictated by circumstances is not really a choice as you "had no choice" but to chose as you did.

And I do see nefarious intent in the lingo of choice. The intent is to blame other people for choosing differently from you, to insulate your own sense of superiority.

 

Then why do atheists challenge every contention but their own? It is not science that lead to atheism - strict science leads to agnosticism.

Yep, some things are unequal - why do you think I dropped atheism like a dead cat?

You can choose to ignore the obvious or accept it. You prove that everyday.

Once again, funny that yours is a choice and my choice is slavery.

And you talk about the double standards of others and build in skepticism?

Who is doing the blaming Kmisho? WHo is ignoring the repeat comments of tolerance and openess in exploration of faiths?

Certainly not the guys that rejects all of them as stupiod without even bothering to actually study them, and actively misquoting and misrepresenting them.

If I said, as you proved, that atheism was genocide, you would take issue with that.

If you say, as you proved, that religion was genocide, then suddenly someone taking issue with it is a slave?

That is not skepticism in action is it? We know what it is.

 

lying to the child is the EVIL.

it's selfish, rude, corrupt and down right WRONG, period!

anyone can BELIEVE as they choose but not a one has a right to lie (false witness) no matter the 'god' they choose.

[b It is the result of deliberate ignorance and nothing else.[/b]

No self respecting atheist, convinced by logic, should tolerate such nonesense - much less practice it.[/QUOTE]

i can agree, that no respecting human being should lie to a child and wake up in the morning

 

So people who are not gullible or impotent are not human?

 

i can agree, that no respecting human being should lie to a child and wake up in the morning[/QUOTE]

Let me get this straight, if you tell your child there is no God - even though there is no proof of this, it is fact. In fact though, if you tell your child that there is no God you are, without even trying, magically, a perfect mummy.

If however, you believe in God - everything about you is a lie and you are evil person.

Yep, wonderful think to teach children the opposite of tolerance, to teach them sterotyping, the abandonment of logical reasoning and evidenced based conclusions in order to catigate anyone who disgrees with your opinion on God to be evil and devoid of human worth.

Prove its lie Bash. Prove there is no God.

No worries mate, we know you can't - its just and anger management and social disorder to run around castigating everyone as a liar who disagrees with you and heaping affection on all who agree with you.

So, every time you call me a liar from a position of total ignorance, I am just going to call you a troll in response.