It's the debt ceiling again!

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by wgabrie, Feb 26, 2023.

  1. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    It gets more expensive for the government to do the same thing with each passing year. Prices rise on the government just as it does on all of us.

    What the Republicans are asking for is a reduction in government services. That comes with problems of its own.
     
    Alwayssa likes this.
  2. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    NOPE. Just the Woke, Weaponized Waste.

    “We can find real savings looking at every department to find potential savings. Every committee chair has been tasked to do so by the Speaker and whether it’s unspent COVID funds, which is low-hanging fruit, to have some fiscal responsibility,”

    'Programs in the Department of Defense (DOD) “that are not focused on national defense, they are focused on Woke ideology, we can go after those programs as well.”

    [​IMG]

    'The national debt is now at its highest ceiling ever at $31 trillion, inflation continues at levels not seen in four decades, and the banking system seems to be teetering on the brink of a major crisis.'

    'Biden’s budget proposal which, if adopted, would push annual spending to $6.9 trillion, 54 percent higher than in 2019, the last year before the COVID Pandemic, and with a $1.8 trillion deficit for 2024. That deficit would be even higher but for Biden seeking $4.5 trillion in new tax hikes on individuals, families, and businesses.'

    All this deficit spending is driving inflation.

    'Biden and his Democratic allies in Congress demand the debt ceiling be lifted much higher, which would continue the COVID Pandemic-inspired spending explosion that began in 2020 under former President Donald Trump and sharply accelerated under his successor.'

    McCarthy and House GOP leaders will give a debt ceiling increase with outlays reduced by just $130 billion to 2022 levels.

    https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www...se-gop-as-budget-battle-heats-up_5138787.html
     
  3. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    Why torture yourself and argue about the particulars, when you and everyone else knows that nothing will be done to stop the bleeding??

    The bleeding will stop when the patient is dead.
     
  4. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    The future is always uncertain, therefore, both cynicism and hope are perfectly valid choices. As Winston Churchill observed, you can always count on Americans to do right thing, after they have tried everything else. I think we are getting closer to running out of everything else to try.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2023
  5. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    I understand where you're coming from, I was there 35 years ago - but even then I could read the writing on the wall, and knew the situation was hopeless.

    We're getting into the endgame now. Won't be long.
     
  6. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Never count out Americans!
     
  7. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So if Trump did push the debt to the edge then why is Biden pushing us over the edge?
     
  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump already pushed us over the edge, we are past the point of no return, now we just ride this train as long as we can before we go bk

    crashing the train now is just dumb, but the FED seems to be wanting to do just that

    don't raise interest rates, raise wages, raise import taxes and taxes on foreign outsourcing

    the debt is worse cause the dollar is not touching as many Americans hands, every hand it touches pays taxes, thus the more hand a dollar touches, the better
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2023
  9. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    Over half the country is completely checked out from reality.

    Liberals, communists, Democrats, progressives, socialists, LGBTAlphabet, whatever label they wear - common sense makes no sense to them.

    They are without any sense of decency or morality, and have nothing but contempt for their fellow citizens and the rule of law.

    They control all of our governmental institutions and selectively administer the law to advance their agenda and attack their enemies.

    You can't fight evil like that by making reasoned arguments. You cannot debate people like that.

    All of that said, they are only the tip of the spear. They are protected and financed by the elites above us all.

    The only way to win against such an enemy is to stop playing their game, and get onside with educating yourself and everyone within your influence about what we're really up against.

    Everything that is happening is intentional. The debt is intentional, squandering money in the most idiotic of ways is intentional, the mis-leadership of the Republican "opposition" always fumbling away victories is intentional.

    Until enough people come to understand and mobilize against those things, nothing will change.
     
  10. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    I'll give you an example. The entire governing class and the lying fake news media that is their propaganda organ, are all in on Ukraine, only 1/7 Americans are. They bluff that they are half, I don't buy it. but we do have to be engaged and persuasive as you state, and I think the Constitutional solution starts with Article V and a State Imposed Balanced Budget Amendment.
     
  11. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    If they want a war, they'll do exactly what they did to get us into WWI and II... provoke or facilitate an attack by the enemy, and stoke the masses. The American people were overwhelmingly opposed to the U.S. getting involved in those wars too.

    In WWI it was the Lusitania, and in WWII they provoked the Japanese - then had the gall to court martial Huband and Kimmel, when both were completely innocent of any negligence or wrongdoing.
     
  12. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Many people in the USA disagreed with Bush that we went to war in Iraq.

    But I don't see their support for the current war in Ukraine as hypocrisy.

    Russia is the aggressor here. And that means people of just conscience would abandon Russian President Putin and oppose his war in Ukraine.

    You might not like it, but combined with Russia's previous treachery for most of modern history, those who see it can support Ukraine as part of a larger goal—the containment of Russia.
     
  13. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Well, if someone bombs us, the US will overwhelming support the complete and total defeat of whoever attacked us.
     
  14. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    Yes, but it was the circumstances and readiness that makes the FDR Administration culpable.

    The Administration had been trying to get us into the war since FDR won reelection. They provoked Japan by effectively blocking their ability to procure oil and other necessary resources. The U.S. engaged in many adversarial activities that were intended to provoke Japan, and put them in a position where they either went to war with us, or effectively agreed to be starved to death by way of insufficient supplies.

    Japan did not want to go to war with the U.S.

    Beyond the provocations, FDR deliberately weakened Pearl Harbor's defenses by denying them adequate material support which had been specifically requested by Pearl Harbor Commanders Rear Admiral Husband Kimmel and Lt. General Walter Short.

    Washington also deliberately withheld prior knowledge of the attack to ensure that Pearl was caught completely by surprise and that the attack would result in significant damage and loss of life.

    Typical of how Machiavellian operations work, the entire blame was laid at the feet of Kimmel and Short.

    Kimmel and Short did not take this lying down, and demanded court martial proceedings to clear their names. The Administration buried them in bureaucratic delays, and never publically capitulated.

    On May 25, 1999, the United States Senate, by a vote of 52–47, passed a non-binding resolution to exonerate Kimmel and Short and requested that the President of the United States posthumously restore both men to full rank. Senator Strom Thurmond, one of the sponsors of the resolution, called Kimmel and Short "the two final victims of Pearl Harbor."

    ----------------------------------

    You also have to remember that FDR's Administration was teeming with communist, Soviet spies. The communists needed the U.S. to get into the war.
     
  15. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    I would say the same thing about the Republicans. You guys tried this before, in 2011, and it did not go so well. Then you have the CBO report that was pretty damning to the GOP on their antics in balancing the budget within 10 years and keeping the tax cuts. Turns out that would be practically impossible, if you keep SS, Medicare, Defense, and the VA off the table.
     
  16. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    That is a bunch of BS.

    When it came to the 1990s, both sides compromised, especially during the Clinton Administration with no broad-based tax cuts. In the 2000s, the budget was not going to be balanced. With the tax cuts, 1 and 2, plus war funding expenditures, and the increased VA expenditures because soldiers were coming back with horrendous physical and mental injuries, the budget was never going to be balanced. Then we had the financial crisis from 2007 to 2009 and still felt the effect as late as 2010.
     
  17. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    the only ones who are threatening a government shutdown is the freedom caucus with 13 appropriation bills to be passed separately and with no budget reconciliation. The Freedom caucus is against budget reconciliation at any cost, especially in the House where the caucus can yield the most power. That means only one or two of the bills will pass both houses while the remaining may stall in the house or Senate. Then you have MTG now stating that she wants to hold up budget appropriations in an effort to "defund" the FBI/DOJ in any and all investigations into Trump, including the Special Counsel investigations. Nothing says to the public with that statement as an indication of Trump should be above the law and to have a government shutdown all in the case of politics.
     
  18. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    Trying to show context to Zorro is like trying to get a 5 year old to understand quantum mechanics. It will never happen.
     
  19. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    There is no defunding of the FBI in their proposal.
     
  20. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    More hogwash it was Clinton who "triangulated" and reversed his positions. We had a paltry $161B deficit in 2007 as much as you want to deny it incuding the cost of the winding down wa sand we were awash in new revenues due to the rate cuts and those are fact your misinformed simple dismissal cannot refute. That financial crisis didn't begin until the END of 2007 after a year of Democrat majority rule.
     
  21. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Too bad it didn't go well and the Dems continued their MASSIVE deficit and debt increases and their failed recovery. CBO is notoriously wrong with their predictions.
     
  22. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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  23. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    We have had massive deficit spending under Trump with over $8 trillion in 4 years, under Reagan with the debt more than doubling in 8 years, and the debt increasing by 70% during the Bush Jr Years. We have had debt spending and were in debt the moment this country was founded.
     
  24. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    Howwash on your claim here. History shows that the two sides compromised. Why else would marginal tax rates go up in the top earners when the GOP controlled both Houses during his 8 years in office. The 1997 tax package was complex. It had some revenue raises and some tax cuts. there was no broad based tax cuts because both sides knew, at that time, it was not the thing to do.

    So far you are failing history with your alternative reality and alternative facts. So far you are failing history and practically every subject you post about.
     
  25. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Defunding the resources against Trump and she doesn't speak for everyone the FBI is going nowhere stop with the hysterics.
     

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