Jesus returns in 2017,,,,

Not at all. Jesus, as a man, wouldn't know.

 

of course, because he was not a God, he was just a man.. nothing more

that was my point, jesus and god are not one and the same....

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No, Jesus was and still is God, not a god. God gave Himself limitations as
a man. How else could he have experienced temptation?
That's the point.

 

Actually the Rabbi wouldn't have thought the world flat and likely didn't care about the age of the earth.............please stop

 

lol, you really have to reach to make that conclusion, the bible says Jesus was God's son, not that Jesus was God

maybe were all Gods and we just wiped our memories too, how else would we get the human experience....

.

 

The Bible is very clear about Jesus being God.

Here are a few examples.

Matt. 9:2 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven."
Jesus forgives sins. Only God can forgive sins.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jesus is the Word which is God.

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

John 8:58 Jesus says, "Before Abraham was, I AM." Exodus 3:14 - "I AM" means "YHWH,"
which means God.

 

no, Jesus was the Son, he thought he was growing up to be a God like dad, but like you said, what does Jesus know, if God wiped his mind before he was born, he knew nothing per you.... maybe he was just some guy that like to make up neat stories to tell around the camp fire with the guys

can't have it both ways, either Jesus knew what God knows or he didn't

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If Jesus was God why did God hide himself in clouds and bushes from the Old Testament characters? He could have popped up in human form with stone ID tablets around his neck saying that he was God.

 

Matthew 9:2 Read on. Verse 6 Says 'But you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins....'

This does not tell us that Jesus was God, just that he had God's authority to forgive sins. The ultimate forgiveness is from God. As todays priests should remind their communicants.

John 1. John wants to make Jesus divine. His whole Gospel is based on that thought. John 20:31.
John 21:25 'And there are many other things.........the world itself could not contain the books that would be written'. His enthusiasm is outstanding, his exaggeration great.

Exodus 3:14 says 'I Am that I Am' yet the word translated 'I am' is used in over 30 other places in the Old Testament and translated there 'I will be'. Strange?

 

He did several times. Read about Abraham and Melchizedek.

 

Abraham is the most despicable character in the Bible. Melchizedek was just a local thug who extorted people for protection.

 

And the Jews rightly said, "only God can forgive sin..." Which Jesus did because
he is God.

And Jesus is God.

Not true. This is your opintion. John did not want to make Jesus divine. Jesus
was divine, i.e. He was God.

You're interpretation is dubious as best.

I honestly can't accept your opinion for various reasons and mainly because you
claim that the Old Testament contains a large part of Christian doctrine. I asked you
to produce such evidence and you've not done so.

 

Where would Christianity be without the Tanakh. It takes claims from the Tanakh about the coming of the Messiah - Jesus. In fact the Tanakh does no such thing. All the claims made refer to Israel.

I see Mitt has posted like for this. I've been through it all with him, though he ignored my post. I'm not going through it again. When I get time I'll find it for you.

Basically. Without the Tanakh Christianity would not exist. It is built on the supposed sayings of
Rabbi Jesus who quoted the Tanakh time after time. A Rabbi that would not have been recognised without the misinterpreted 'predictions' of the Tanakh. Upon predictions which actually refer to the Israelites.
A Rabbi that quoted the Tanakh with authority because he had been brought up from the age of 5 to study the Torah, and from the age of about 9, the Oral Torah.
He accepted the 10 commandments because he had been taught them. But we know that the 10 commandments given specifically to the Jews by god were a rehash of many of the rules and laws already in operation long before 'supposed Moses' time, and indeed were most of the health and family laws.
The sign of gods chosen ones, the circumcision, was also practised by other nations for different purposes before 'Moses' time.

Paul never met Jesus as far as we know. He simply heard what the disciples had to say and what others told him and set his beliefs from that. If you believe his 'vision' real then you must believe Mohammeds vision real. You have the word of 2 men who believed they were right - but both cannot be.
You 'believe' Paul. Muslims 'believe' Mohammed. It is simply personal belief.

Paul instituted the 'Last Supper'. Jesus followed the Jewish tradition of Passover. As always he spoke to his Jewish disciples in Jewish terms. No gentile was present, nor could be. Paul converted it.

The Rabbi believed he had a message to gods people. Was that message opened to gentiles at Pentecost?
No. The people who heard the message were Jews from across the 'world'.
Why different languages? Since the time of the Babylonian exile Jews had been spreading abroad. In the intervening centuries that had become 'members' of other nations, taken their languages and the prevailing Greek language. That's one reason the Septuagint translation came into being.
Each year they would come to Jerusalem for the Passover.

Christianity owes a lot to Judaism and the Tanakh. Judaism owes a lot to other religions - particularly the Egypt. But that's another story.

 

Excellent post. I hope Mitt and WR will actually read it.

 

The person called Jesus was the human body that God used to reveal the Good News to the Jews. He was really the second Adam, for where Adam had fell, and became separated from the Timeless, the Immeasurable, the Creator, Jesus was the reconciliation of that separation, an illustration, and example to humanity, that the human being could be in fact reconciled to God, the separation that occurred in mythical eden has been healed. And then Jesus, or the Creator that was dwelling within his human consciousness, set about teaching the Jews about the Good News, and the manner in which they could be reconciled. He also told the people in the Sermon on the Mount, what it was like to be like himself, to walk in the Kingdom even as he walked into this brutal, evil world, created by man. He spoke of an inner Kingdom, that was God's Kingdom and not affiliated with the world, the brutal societies man has always created. That one will live in this world, but not be of that world. So, a true follower of Christ would not indulge in the hate, the envy, the greed, the materialism that defined the world in the time of Christ, as it does today.

But here's the deal. Christ never intended for people to turn his murder into an event that saves humanity, by the tool of magic blood. The salvation that Christ spoke of could have been achieved before his death, by simply doing that he told people to do. But it required an inner seeking of the Kingdom. Knocking on allegorical doors within consciousness itself. It involved a deep introspection, contemplation, for in order to repent of sin, one has to know by introspection what those sins are. Christ spoke of a rebirth being involved, and obviously he was speaking of a change in consciousness. For our normal consciousness is very ego driven, self interested, very materialistic, and that is the consciousness that has to die, so that a new one might be born. Magic blood, claiming it, doesn't cause us to seek and knock inwardly, in fact, it takes us away from that inner seeking, introspection, so that God can show you very important truths, and it is those truths that brings salvation, enlightenment. Not this contrived magic blood.

The way the death of Christ is used corrupted christiianity, and there is no rationality in the idea that god came down and killed himself, in order that man might be saved from sin. So the way of salvation, lies in the teachings of Christ not in magic blood. It involves a real change in consciousness, a denial, negation of ego consciousness which is the cause of all sin, with sin being an ego demanding gratification that hurts others. Christ didn't operate from ego consciousness, it had no power over his consciousness. If ego consciousness is absent, what is in that silence is God, his quality of consciousness. To be there is to be in the Kingdom.

But we would rather have these childish images of god, of what Christ was, magic blood and all of that rubbish. And that creates a religion of the intellect, of the imagination, and because of this it cannot hold up to scrutiny by rational minds. This deal about Christ is a really simple, down to earth thing, yet we have turned it into some fanciful magical story that is good for bedtime stories for kids, but hardly a proper understanding of what Christ was and what he was about.

 

So the way of salvation, lies in the teachings of Christ not in magic blood.

You got it..............

 

I've posted some of it before and it's been ignored. So I don't get my hopes up.

 

In other words you just admitted to being wrong just like you always are when
trying to discuss something you know nothing about. I can't think of a single
you've been right on this forum. Not a single time.

Thanks for trying.

 

Again, you didn't answer the question, not that you can.

You claim, wrongly, that a large part of Christian doctrine comes from the
Old Testament.

You were asked to show show which Christian doctrine(s) come largely from
the Old Testament.

You've not answered the question. What doctrine?

 

All you had to say is that you don't know and are totally ignorant of Christianity.
You didn't need to go to all that trouble to show it.

But thanks.

 

2017, Hey, just in time for Hillary's Inauguration

 

"For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."
-1 Thessalonians 5:2

 

Why would anyone want Abraham as a hero when he spent his life banging his sister, constantly lying, sacrificing his kid for his own personal fame and fortune, and treating his family like dirt? The guy was pure scum.

 

Christianities 'Messiah' is claimed from the Tanakh in retrospect.
Paul has converted The Passover meal to the Eucharist.
Where do you think the raising of the Bible etc comes from.
Satan has actually been misinterpreted doctrinally from Judaism. There is no Satan - enemy of God. HaSatan is a servant of god. Part of his service is to test mens faith in god. Ha Satan is Eastern theology, Satan is western theology. You read western theology. The Jews Eastern.
Baptism of children follows the Jewish tradition of ritual
Mohammed claimed he had a new vision on the Tanakh. Paul claimed a new vision on the Tanakh. Jw's, Mormons all make the same claim on the Bible.
Jews are not free from it. Much of the Torah is merely a 'made up' theological discussion using ancient stories and beliefs - to put it simply. Many Jews accept that now.
10 commandments - nothing new. Didn't the Preacher - son of David - say 'There is no new thing under the sun'.

Whoops time to go out.

 

FIRST AN APOLOGY FOR MY ABSENCE. GETTING MY NON PROFITS UP AND RUNNING AND KEEPING THE MISSIONS AND CHURCH GOING IS TAKING MORE TIME THAN THERE IS IN A DAY. ALSO THANKS FOR ALL YOUR POSTS!

Or many others such as this bit of Matthew (all scripture in blue) ;

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

However;

king James Bible...Luke 21:28

And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

So while no one knows the day and or the hour, as I pointed out in the OT, we might know that the second coming is not that far off. How do we determine if certain signs (war, pestilence, etc etc) are prophesy coming to fulfillment or just another event ? That is material for a new thread. I can not keep up with one thread much less several more.

reva