Jesus Today!

I think you got something mixed up here. Actually the Bible tells us Jesus was criticized for socializing with tax-collectors. The guys he drove out of the temple were merchants and money changers:

Matthew 21:12-13:

Rather than losing money to them, the dignitaries of the temple made money with these stalls. So we can't tell from that story what Jesus would have thought about tax exemption for Churches, but we can be pretty sure that he wouldn't appreciate it when churches are set out to make material profit.

It's good to see that you're not one of those fools who equate liberals to communists. You may note though that Jesus' teachings on divorce may be more complicated than we think. Some liberal theologians see them as a defense of women's rights. A husband could divorce his wife for basically no reason at all back then and more often than not that left her in a very precarious situation. And Jesus certainly wants us to have lasting loving relationships.

I think I agree with you in a crucial point though: I don't think we can really put Jesus into political categories. While his message may have political implications - for me it's that my Christian conscience tells me to vote for parties that show a concern for social justice - he clearly did not have a political agenda such as overthrowing the rule of Rome and so on, but was out to save our souls.

 

You seem to be basing your opinion, that Jesus would be a liberal today if He were here, on a very general and mythical view that Jesus was anti-govt. and 'for the people'.

What do you base Jesus being against captialism on? After all, what a man sows, that will he reap. Jesus ate fish with His disciples. And fed fish to thousands. Jesus cursed the fig tree and it died. What would environmentalists say about that? I don't see Jesus as a socialist anywhere.

Jesus never said love everything. And, Jesus came to save sinners of which all are included. That doesn't mean He approved their lifestyle, only that they were not exempt from salvation.

You have based your views of Jesus on a Jesus that did not exist.

Quantrill

 

Everything has always thought for us. Before the Tv, it was the newspapers, before the newspapers, there were other news sources, often the local priest and so on.

If we removed these source, we wouldn't think more for ourselves, we'd just hear less thoughts. That's what happened before we had the information system we have today.

The human mind is easier to influence than most people think. That's why I won't accept the notion that Jesus would appear and objectively change his ideas to include modern society. All opinions are based on fundamental priorities, and it is philosophically impossible to choose between them. Every person can make up their own mind about it, but they'd base it on their own experiences, they don't have access to a universal truth.

 

Quantrill,


For one, "Meat" in the Bible is referred to as Food, and not as flesh.

The "Fig Tree" story was a metaphor, and not meant to be taken literally.

Jesus did in fact say to love everything.

Jesus replied to Matthew, 'Love the World, and your Lord, your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'

Jesus was a loving-all socialist whether you like it or not.

 

I'm slighty surprised that you of all people regard the Bible as a book full of myths.

Matthew 21:12-13 doesn't sound as if Jesus was too keen on capitalism taking over the temple.

Sayeth Paul in Galatians 6:7 in keeping with the general teachings of Christ and in cross-reference to Job 4:8 „As I have observed, those who plow evil and those who sow trouble reap it. „
I'm sorry to tell you that it's pretty obvious that Paul didn't speak about the interest rates the bank gives you on your savings here, but about the effect our moral conduct towards others will have on their conduct towards us and on our rewards in heaven. According to Jesus it's our treasures in heaven that we should covet, not our treasures on earth (Matthew 6:19-21) and in in Matthew 19:24 He tells us that "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Nowhere in the bible does it say Jesus wanted money for the fish, actually it suggests He gave it away as a freebie, redistributing wealth so to speak. That's a bad businessman if ever I saw one.

Being an environmentalist doesn't equal being a socialist.
As has been pointed out climate change wasn't that much of a problem in the pre-industrial times 2000 years ago.
Socialist? Well, I doubt Jesus ever heard of the term, but I would assume that the earliest Christians who'd still met Jesus tried to follow Him when they set up their communities, about which Acts 2:44-45 tells us
„All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need.„
Don't know about you, but to me that does indeed sound like a bleeding 'socialist' Hippie-commune with shared property.

He certainly told us to love God, the next man and even our enemies. If that's not bloody pacifist I don't know what is.

On that we agree.

I'm afraid the Jesus that you base your beliefs on can't even be found in the Bible, unless you go through excruciating pain in the effort to distort His message whereever it causes your hard-hearted political views discomfort.

 

Jesus ate fish. There is nothing to indicate Jesus was a vegetarian. Just your myth.

I take the fig tree story literally. There is nothing to indicate it is a metaphor.

Chapter and verse in Matthew.

Whether I like it or not is immaterial. Where in the Bible do you prove Jesus was a socialist.

Quantrill

 

I only regarded the view of 'earthlingsDAWTcom' as the myth. You should pay a little more attention.

Jesus ran the buyers and sellers out because of where they were, in the temple, not because He was against capitalism.

Eating fish was to proof Jesus was no vegetarian.

The fig tree example was proof that Jesus was not environmentalist.

The early Christians could sell what they wanted, if they wanted, and give the money to their local group or church, and all would share in that. No requirement to do so. That doesn't mean they lived in a commune.

Well, the poster said Jesus said to love everything. And He didn't. And Jesus was no pacifist.

My views are based upon the Bible.

Quantrill

 

I don't what jesus would be today as long as he wasn't a Leafs fan.....

 

No dear, your views are based on your personal interpretation of the bible. An interpretation that is rather warped.

 

Then why are a good bit of the more vocal liberals not Christian? Why aren't they actively promoting Christianity?


Personally, I think Jesus would be horrified at most of us, not just the liberals and not just the conservatives.

 

Libertarians are against national borders. They have no problem with illegal aliens. However, they are against any social spending by the government.

 

Well, I see a lot of capitalism in the Bible in Jesus' stories.

The parable of the talents is clearly capitalistic.

 

Why is my interpretation 'warped'?

Quantrill

 

Because it so conveniently leaves out the verses that I quoted above. Just for fun here's a little clip for you on Glenn Beck's warped views:
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/267673/march-18-2010/glenn-beck-attacks-social-justice---james-martin

 

Im not concerned with Glen Beck.

And I don't see any verses you gave at all. Do you have a reference?

Quantrill

 

Amazing that you don't even seem to read the posts you answer to.
If you're interested to catch up just scroll up and down page 3 of this thread.

 

I did reread. I answered your supposed verses. Did you reread? So, what verses are you in question about? And, why do you say my interpretation of the Bible is warped?

You have not answered. Oh, I see you have checked out. Wise move.

Quantrill

 

I reiterate my notions.

"Meat" in the Bible is referred to as Food, and not as flesh.

The "Fig Tree" story was a metaphor, and not meant to be taken literally.

Jesus did in fact say to love everything.

Jesus replied to Matthew, 'Love the World, and your Lord, your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'

Jesus was a loving-all socialist whether you like it or not.

Quantrill, you seem to either be ignorant, or disrespectful of the biblical facts.

 

Whars mah nails?
Mah - help me drag them thar logs over here.

 

I assume you mean "biblical story."
I am not sure that, without unconditional, any "biblical fact" has ever been proven.
But I agree that the story of Jesus demonstates that he was a loving, accepting person, with a stong social conscience.

 

Correct.

I meant Facts of the Biblical Story.

I'm not advocating that everything from the Bible happened, or if anything is true, none of us can purely know that. However, I'm arguing for the facts from the Bible. In other words, what's stated in the bible.

Quantrill's arguments have no relevancy, since everything he says, is not mentioned anywhere, nor in the Bible.

However, my arguments are factual to this relevancy, since what I argue is proof that it was actually stated in the Bible.

 

Thank you for clarifying this.
I was wondering if you were a believer in the "literal" word of the Bible as the word of God, or if you looked at the Bible as an important, often inspiring, but too often overly simplified or interpretated to meet the "need" of specific people and specific religions.

 

Jesus cursing the fig tree is not a metaphor. What makes you think it is a metaphor?

Thats an interesting verse you gave. Could you give book, chapter, and verse where it is found?

Quantrill