Let's say the doomsday people are right

Discussion in 'Survival and Sustainability' started by jmblt2000, Jun 5, 2015.

  1. kronikcope

    kronikcope Active Member

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    Bugging out too late can potentially be just as hazardous, depending on the level of lawlessness. A group of a few guys creating a road block with a few cars, for instance, is a rat trap for most people approaching it.
     
  2. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    I don't see a disaster enveloping a whole country the size of the United States. The most likely scenario will be an earthquake or hurricane. Those would be regional. I suppose there's a remote chance of a nuclear exchange however this does not mean the whole nation wold be enveloped in lethal radiation...parts would remain habitable.

    I live in a condo, I don't have the means or motivaton to "stand and fight," my best recourse is "flight." I could buy land in some remote area, but you'd still have to get there, and there is no way to predict your "home base" would not be in the miiddle of the disaster.

    My philosophy is to remain as mobile as you can, re-supply as you go.

    A 6 day supply of portable, (on your back) supplies is the extent of my prepping. I can literally grab n' go and be out the door within 15 minutes..on the road and be able to survive with no other access to food and water for six days. The plan would be to get to an area where provisions are accessible. Again, I believe the most likely scenario would be a regional disaster.

    A train derailment (hazardous chemicals), an urban riot, an earthquake, tornado / storms etc.

    That's what I prepare for.
     
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  3. kronikcope

    kronikcope Active Member

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    Well, I was speaking more in a general sense of a major collapse of government and services. A virus, EMP, etc

    And of course zombies.
     
  4. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    In the event of a major collapse, along the lines of economic or health. Well, I do have a waterproof pouch I keep cash in for the bug out bag and a small quantity of Gold to barter in the event I run low on provisions and there is no infrastructure that support electronic transactions. I don't have any plans along the lines of buried shelters with long-term provisions. I suppose I'd be up (*)(*)(*)(*) creek, but even the most prepared person would be over-run eventually. They might outlast me for a year or so, but eventually someone would find their hideout and conspire to take it.

    The first thing you'll die of, aside from other people, is lack of water, Minimally keep potable water, in your home should the water supply be inaccessible. That's doable for anyone, whether they reside in a home or apartment. You will not last beyond 4 - 5 days, without water.
     
  5. kronikcope

    kronikcope Active Member

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    You never know. In the event of a major collapse I would suspect the survivors, after a year or so, would be in a tribe like mentality, pairing up with those who could help them in some way. Tribes would attack other tribes for resources. Who knows, I could be way off base.

    I believe Id be heading north. If I could make it across the border of Canada I think I'd be alight. I know a few lakes that are a good 15 mile hike off the closest logging road. I'm assuming that would be my best bet.
     
  6. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    The Spanish flu in 1918 killed 25 million people in the first 6 months of the outbreak. You mentioned that...that's a very real threat. Our society is very mobile and this would spread the virus much faster than it did in 1918.

    Staying away from large crowds would be your safest bet. Spending a year underground while the viurs runs it's course is actually a very sound plan for that type of scenario. Going to some remote area of Canada would also be a safe bet to escape the spread of a virus, as long as you don't meet up with a carrier.

    I don't have the means to prepare on that level, you know buying land, burying a shelter...keeping it supplied, having a plan for keeping it life supporting...not too hot or cold. Possibly a generator for electricity. All of that can get expensive.

    A virus, is a very real scenario however. It has already happened to humanity and wiped out millions.
     
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  7. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If food were scarce, I would have zero interest in your gold. You would have to come up with something far more practical I would need to barter.
     
  8. kronikcope

    kronikcope Active Member

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    Steal a float plane and you'd be in business. :smile:

    But yes, in reality a nasty virus, bacteria, or something of that nature I believe would be the most obvious thing that would send us into a tailspin.
     
  9. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I live in a Hurricane area and I've seen the traffic that results in millions of people trying to get out of an area all at once. I figure in most cases I'm better off at home with my supplies that stuck in traffic on the interstate when a storm is approaching.
     
  10. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And in the case of something like an epidemic, the more you travel the more you are risking exposure. In the event of a complete collapse of government, your odds of surviving will be better if you stick to an area you know with people you know than running off to some foreign place like a feral cat competing for territory in a strange area with strange people.
     
  11. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    Depends what you're "prepping" for. In the event of the collapse of the dollar, it is not a question of the scarcity of goods, it is question of paper money being devalued. Precious metals have retained their value in many civilizatons for thousands of years.

    Now if you're "prepping" for some sort of natural disaster where food & water are scarce, then yes, precious metals would have little practical value.

    It's wise to diversify and to approach preparation as probabilities.

    From what I have read, a pandemic is the most likely disaster, in which case guns and ammo really won't do you much good. Bio-chemical suits will.

    We've seen the Ebola outbreaks in Africa, and of course, as mentioned the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918-19. The issue was not looting and a break down of law and order..the issue was containing the spread of a virus and limiting your exposure.

    This is the most likely disaster to befall our species as it has already happened historically...

    The Bubonic plague nearly wiped out Europe in the 14th century.

    Globally, 75 millon lives ....ended. That's more than all of WW2...all from a tiny pathogen that led to a communicable disease.

    All the stockpile of guns and ammunition will not do you much good to limit your exposure or to cure you.

    In other sorts of disasters, guns and ammuntion wil be important, as will gold and silver in economic disasters.

    Again it depends on the disaster.

    I carry a Hazmat suit in one of my BOBs (bug out bags)...takes up a lot of space, but again, it's important to diversity your preparation. I believe something on the order of economic collapse or a pandemic are the most likely. In the advent of an economic collapse, guns, ammunition...precious metals will have value. There will be plenty of provisions, the issue will be having a currency to purchase them...if paper currency is devalued, precious metals would be the most likely substitute...we experienced this in the Great Depression.

    You have to look at history...what disasters have actually gone down..and what is the best way to prepare.

    #1. Health pandemic
    #2. Economic collapse .
    #3. Natural disasters...but again these would only be local/regional not national/global
    #4. World War III (EMP / radiation)
    #5. Zombie apocalypse.

    My opinion of course.

    Again though...potable WATER (drinkable)...or the lack of it is what will kill you the quickest. Having a sustained source is vital.
     
  12. jmblt2000

    jmblt2000 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Herkdriver...That's why we have a plan and a remote place to go to...We have an emergency radio with a dynamo so it does not need batteries...We have several small solar panels, enough to charge items we need...I have a large stock of propane bottles that work for cooking and heating...We have a local water source...And hopefully the remoteness will stop anyone of us from catching some sort of pandemic...As well as provide a well stocked food source...Deer, hogs, squirrel, fish...All you can do is try...
     
  13. myview

    myview Well-Known Member

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    I don't think he gets it. I have some neighbors. All live further than 1/4 mi away but they are all hard working like minded people. Nearest city 80mi. We have ranchers and farmers in the area. Most people already have animals and gardens. If your not from this area then there are only three ways in. If the community pulls together I believe we can protect ourselves. There are a few bad apples here but if SHTF there will be no welfare so those who are unwilling to pull their own weight would probably be shot or removed from the community for stealing. That said I don't anticipate a world collapse. I'm more inclined to think it will be more of a economic, civil unrest or natural disaster. different parts of the nation will form governments. Every state has one now.
    I'm not a hard core prepper but I do have a gun for each in the family, I try to keep on hand at least a winters worth of supplies. I'd like to get that up to a years worth, plus we'll have the animals. Also I have no problem feeding those who are willing to work for it.

    I also believe that the only thing this area has that outsiders will want is food. I'm sure the farmers and ranchers would strike up deals with outsiders but think about it I wouldn't trade my food for money. Food is much more valuable than money. My Wife gets on me for spending money that will help us become independent but I keep telling her that the money is worthless, we can only buy stuff with it now, and I just don't want to get caught holding a bag of worthless paper that's only good for starting fires.
     
  14. jmblt2000

    jmblt2000 Well-Known Member

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    No I get what you are saying...I don't think you have read all of my posts in this thread...In the last 7 hunting seasons (deer) I have never heard another gun...I'm assuming that a gunshot could be heard from miles away especially in an area that is so quiet...I have never seen another vehicle on the track (let's not call it a road) that leads to my property and rarely another vehicle on the FM that leads to my turnoff. So as I said, what neighbors?
     
  15. myview

    myview Well-Known Member

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    When I said I don't think he gets it I meant him not you. I get you and am all for it. I just haven't went that far. If it gets that bad I'll just fight to survive right where I'm at. That's my plan.
     
  16. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Did you know you could be a millionaire AND get your own survival retreat???

    First, get a million dollars, then.....
     
  17. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Underground bunkers are death traps. How do you fight when your buried underground? Assuming your oxygen isn't cut off (how do you do that?) - when is it safe to come out.
     
  18. Jackster

    Jackster New Member

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    Id say those zombies are also well prepared, most of them have been preaching anti guns while become very adept at taking other peoples things to survive. Granted they'll have to find a 'strong man' well trained in ruthlessly killing survive, but they've practiced that too.
     
  19. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We are preppers with various options. We are not in an urban setting. We can fortify. Go remote. Or go offshore. Our emergency stock is significant.

    But going underground in a bunker is nuts. Nothing is less defensible and more traps a person.
     
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  20. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    People relying on bunkers have a single plan of action - hiding and hoping no one finds them. If they are found, they are doomed. Just block their air supply pipe(s) and then pick them off like picking off prairie dogs sticking their heads out.
     
  21. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The invisible house.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trdiuopaj8I

    If that was instead on the ground surrounded by a thick undergrowth of thickets it would essentially be truly invisible. People don't go thru briars unless they believe there is something on the other side. Otherwise they go around it. So build a mirrored house in the woods on the ground, surround it with thick undergrowth that includes blackberry bushes (needles) with a section that can be slide to the side and this is a house that couldn't be seen - even if seen.
     
  22. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The great depression happened when this country was still mostly rural, not urban as today. It also happened when government really wasn't giving the people anything. No welfare, food stamps, social security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment insurance and on and on. Washington D.C. might as well been on Mars for how much people depended on their services. Most people were pretty well self sufficient, except perhaps in the big cities at that time. The family farm thrived, not so today. Family helped family, neighbor helped neighbor and community helped community. All of that is in the past, now if someone needs help all we do is send them down to the nearest government office.

    Huge difference between the 1930's and today.
     
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  23. raytri

    raytri Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that's the thing about preppers. They seem to imagine a scenario where there's no organized society, and all they have to worry about is fending off the occasional marauder while hunting/fishing/growing enough food to eat.

    They don't, for instance, seem too concerned with trying to rebuild society -- they fantasize about a rugged self-sufficient existence, and that's it.

    What would ACTUALLY happen in the event of a major catastrophe that brought down the U.S. government is that the survivors would organize themselves at various levels. Maybe city/county/state government would survive. Even if they didn't, survivors would organize into groups -- tribes or militias, if you like. The strongest would seek to assert control over a given area, to organize the exploitation and development of resources to create a sustainable existence.

    The best of them would try to begin rebuilding, by reasserting security and rule of law, establishing manufacturing facilities, etc.

    And nearly all of them would look on the preppers as either threats or curiosities.
     
  24. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    And you know this just how?
     
  25. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    In a total collapse in which the grocery stores are empty, the vast majority of people including "preppers" would be dead within 1 year.

    People assume that if they just survive the first couple of months of chaos and the rampaging hordes, then they will be fine. I doubt it.

    In the USA there are very few farmers. Few people know how and can grow enough food to survive year round. There is a huge learning curve to farming - and take away the commercial fertilizer, commercially provided seeds, pesticide and herbicide, and the machinery, and its very daunting task.

    And the backyard garden won't cut it, that's just playtime compared to growing enough to actually survive on.

    Anyone that thinks they are going to pull out their seed bank, plant some, augment it with some hunting and fishing, and eat well are dead men walking.
     

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