Mockery of Religion

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by mbk734, Sep 26, 2017.

  1. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    I'm not convinced that people who hold those opinions think there is something wrong with it. It might be incomplete, but it's rare that people think they are wrong about something. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say.
     
  2. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Then so is despotism. Enjoy.

    To what? "A gram is better than a damn"? "Big Brother is watching you"?
     
  3. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A lack of belief in god means a future of the exercise of absolute power.
    How do you come to that conclusion.
     
  4. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm an atheist and every day I wake up and ask myself the very same question.
    I mean without god, raping and pillaging are human's go to pasttimes.

    What scares the crap outta me is all the theists that believe their religious faith is the only thing stopping them from being barbaric lawless immoral unethical animals.

    Guess all us athiests should pray to the gods that It doesn't make their followers lose faith in it. Be a bit of a sticky wicket all round, wot?
     
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  5. mbk734

    mbk734 Well-Known Member

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  6. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What I meant by harnessing evolution.... declaring it as indisputable fact then implying some innate superior intelligence over others that disagree.
     
  7. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It most definitely IS a religion. The proof of it is the number of atheists that post here purporting their unbelief is superior to those that hold on to faith.
     
  8. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    it is most definitely, by definition, not a religion.
     
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  9. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Years back there was a ruling by the Supreme Court that Secular Humanism is a religion." By definition" (that includes atheism). Most religions believe that God is the center of all things. Atheism concludes mankind is the center of all things. It is a religion and there are as many sects as there are atheists.
     
  10. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    fascinating. no relevance to the incorrect claim that atheism is a religion. Atheism is by definition, not a religion.
     
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  11. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A religion does not to hold belief in a particular deity. Atheists tend to be "self-worshippers". It is human nature to worship something. Now as to how much they worship, that would tend to determine exactly how "religious" they are. I am religious about brushing my teeth.
     
  12. mbk734

    mbk734 Well-Known Member

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    I used to be an atheist until I realized I am God.
     
  13. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Wonderful. Atheism by definition still isn’t a religion though.
     
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  14. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That makes you a very religious atheist.... it doesn't change your status though.
     
  15. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    By noting that without God, morality is subjective, which means might makes right.
     
  16. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And start taxing the hell out of corporate religions like Mormans, Catholics, Scientologists and Jehova Witnesses.
     
  17. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If morality is subjective or objective is irrelevant, as is whether might is right, man chooses what moral code he lives by and always has. Name one instance when in the last 2000 years any god has intervened in mans fight against despotism?
     
  18. William Rea

    William Rea Well-Known Member

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    Quote exactly what the ruling says.
     
  19. William Rea

    William Rea Well-Known Member

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    Evolution is a fact, the Theory of Evolution is our best and currently only explanation for it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  20. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    thats why these religious discussions are more like pissing contests, its not good enough that atheists believe there is no God, they want to divorce themselves from the word religion, while pretending disbelief in God is different from belief there is no God, because they again pretend that gives them immunity from proving their position, all while having faith their lack of belief in something they cannot prove. :bounce:

    Cant argue with anyone so politically motivated, deeply in denial.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
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  21. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nevertheless....it,is a theory. Creation too is a theory The theory of Creation is our best and currently our ONLY explanation.
     
  22. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Here you go William!
    The U.S. Supreme Court cited Secular Humanism as a religion in the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins (367 U.S. 488). Roy Torcaso, the appellant, a practicing Humanist in Maryland, had refused to declare his belief in Almighty God, as then required by State law in order for him to be commissioned as a notary public. The Court held that the requirement for such an oath "invades appellant's freedom of belief and religion."
    The Court declared in Torcaso that the "no establishment" clause of the First Amendment reached far more than churches of theistic faiths, that it is not the business of government or its agents to probe beliefs, and that therefore its inquiry is concluded by the fact of the profession of belief.
    Actually, the Court in Torcaso rested its decision on "free exercise" grounds, not the "Establishment Clause." Abington v. Schempp, 374 U.S. 203, 264-65 (1962) J. Brennan, concurring.

    The Court stated:
    We repeat and again reaffirm that neither a State nor the Federal Government can constitutionally force a person to "profess a belief or disbelief in any religion." Neither can constitutionally pass laws or impose requirements which aid all religions as against non-believers,10 and neither can aid those religions based on a belief in the existence of God as against those religions founded on different beliefs.11

    Footnote 11 concerning "religions founded on different beliefs" contains the Court's citation of Secular Humanism as a religion. It states
    Among religions in this country which do not teach what would generally be considered a belief in the existence of God are Buddhism, Taoism, Ethical Culture, Secular Humanism, and others. See Washington Ethical Society v. District of Columbia, 101 U.S. App. D.C. 371, 249 F.2d 127; Fellowship of Humanity v. County of Alameda, 153 Cal. App. 2d 673, 315 P.2d 394; II Encyclopedia of the Social Sciences 293; 4 Encyclopedia Britannica (1957 ed.) 325-327; 21 id., at 797; Archer, Faiths Men Live By (2d ed. revised by Purinton), 120-138, 254-313; 1961 World Almanac 695, 712; Year Book of American Churches for 1961, at 29, 47.

    It is important to note that this citation of Secular Humanism as a religion is not merely dictum. The Supreme Court refers to the important 1957 case of Washington Ethical Society v. District of Columbia (101 U.S. App. D.C. 371) in its holding that Secular Humanism is a non-theistic religion within the meaning of the First Amendment.
    The Ethical Culture movement is one denomination of Secular Humanism which reaches moral and cultural relativism, situation ethics, and attacks belief in a spiritual God and theistic values of the Old and New Testaments.
    The Washington Ethical Society case involved denial of the Society's application for tax exemption as a religious organization. The U.S. Court of Appeals reversed the Tax Court's ruling, defined the Society as a religious organization, and granted its tax exemption.
    The Court Stated,
    The sole issue raised is whether petitioner falls within the definition of a "church" or a "religious society" . . . . The taxing authority urges denial of the tax exemption asserting petitioner is not a religious society or church and that it does not use its buildings for religious worship since "religious" and "worship" require a belief in and teaching of a Supreme Being who controls the universe. The position of the tax Court, in denying tax exemption, was that belief in and teaching of the existence of a Divinity is essential to qualify under the statute. . . . To construe exemptions so strictly that unorthodox or minority forms of worship would be denied the exemption benefits granted to those conforming to the majority beliefs might well raise constitutional issues . . . . We hold on this record and under the controlling statutory language petitioner qualifies as "a religious corporation or society" . . . .

    It is incumbent upon Congress to utilize this broad definition of religion in all its legislative actions bearing on the support or non-support of religion, within the context of the "no-establishment" clause of the First Amendment.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  23. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    yet you fail miserably to quote it, clearly it is nothing more than a figment of your imagination.


    Nontheistic Religions (wiki)


    Metaphysical questions


    On one occasion, when presented with a problem of metaphysics by the monk Malunkyaputta, the Buddha responded with the Parable of the Poison Arrow. When a man is shot with an arrow thickly smeared with poison, his family summons the doctor to have the poison removed, and the doctor gives an antidote:[7]

    But the man refuses to let the doctor do anything before certain questions can be answered. The wounded man demands to know who shot the arrow, what his caste and job is, and why he shot him. He wants to know what kind of bow the man used and how he acquired the ingredients used in preparing the poison. Malunkyaputta, such a man will die before getting the answers to his questions. It is no different for one who follows the Way. I teach only those things necessary to realize the Way. Things which are not helpful or necessary, I do not teach.


    Buddhism
    The Buddha descending from Trāyastriṃśa Heaven. Palm leaf manuscript. Nalanda, Bihar, India
    The gods Śakra (left) and Brahmā (right)


    Since the time of the Buddha, the denial of the existence of a creator deity has been seen as a key point in distinguishing Buddhist from non-Buddhist views.[6]

    Nontheist Quakers
    Nontheist Friend or an atheist Quakeris someone who affiliates with, identifies with, engages in and/or affirms Quaker practices and processes, but who does not accept a belief in a theistic understanding of God, a Supreme Being, the divine, the soul or the supernatural.

    Hinduism
    is characterised by extremely diverse beliefs and practices.[11] In the words of R.C. Zaehner, "it is perfectly possible to be a good Hindu whether one's personal views incline toward monism, monotheism, polytheism, or even atheism."[12] He goes on to say that it is a religion that neither depends on the existence or non-existence of God or Gods.


    Classical Samkhya, Mimamsa, early Vaisheshika and early Nyaya
    schools of Hinduism do not accept the notion of an omnipotent creator God at all.

    The Yoga of Patanjali
    is the school that probably owes most to the Samkhya thought. This school is dualistic, in the sense that there is a division between 'spirit' (Sanskrit: purusha) and 'nature' (Sanskrit: prakṛti).[29] It holds Samadhi or 'concentrative union' as its ultimate goal[30] and it does not consider God's existence as either essential or necessary to achieving this.[31]

    The Bhagavad Gita
    An example of a nontheistic passage might be "The supreme Brahman is without any beginning. That is called neither being nor non-being," which Sankara interpreted to mean that Brahman can only be talked of in terms of negation of all attributes—'Neti neti'.[36]


    The Advaita Vedanta of Gaudapada and Sankara
    rejects theism as a consequence of its insistence that Brahman is "Without attributes, indivisible, subtle, inconceivable, and without blemish, Brahman is one and without a second. There is nothing other than He."[37] This means that it lacks properties usually associated with God such as omniscience, perfect goodness, omnipotence, and additionally is identical with the whole of reality, rather than being a causal agent or ruler of it.[38]


    Philosophical models
    not falling within established religious structures, such as Daoism, deism and pandeism, have also been considered to be nontheistic religions.[39]


    Unitarian Universalists
    create their own approach to religious belief and practice; for many of them, that means a religion with no concept of God/gods or the supernatural.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
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  24. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This defines atheism:
    The U.S. Supreme Court cited Secular Humanism as a religion in the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins (367 U.S. 488). Roy Torcaso, the appellant, a practicing Humanist in Maryland, had refused to declare his belief in Almighty God, as then required by State law in order for him to be commissioned as a notary public. The Court held that the requirement for such an oath "invades appellant's freedom of belief and religion."
    The Court declared in Torcaso that the "no establishment" clause of the First Amendment reached far more than churches of theistic faiths, that it is not the business of government or its agents to probe beliefs, and that therefore its inquiry is concluded by the fact of the profession of belief.
    Actually, the Court in Torcaso rested its decision on "free exercise" grounds, not the "Establishment Clause." Abington v. Schempp, 374 U.S. 203, 264-65 (1962) J. Brennan, concurring.

    The Court stated:
    We repeat and again reaffirm that neither a State nor the Federal Government can constitutionally force a person to "profess a belief or disbelief in any religion." Neither can constitutionally pass laws or impose requirements which aid all religions as against non-believers,10 and neither can aid those religions based on a belief in the existence of God as against those religions founded on different beliefs.11

    Footnote 11 concerning "religions founded on different beliefs" contains the Court's citation of Secular Humanism as a religion. It states
    Among religions in this country which do not teach what would generally be considered a belief in the existence of God are Buddhism, Taoism, Ethical Culture, Secular Humanism, and others. See Washington Ethical Society v. District of Columbia, 101 U.S. App. D.C. 371, 249 F.2d 127; Fellowship of Humanity v. County of Alameda, 153 Cal. App. 2d 673, 315 P.2d 394; II Encyclopedia of the Social Sciences 293; 4 Encyclopedia Britannica (1957 ed.) 325-327; 21 id., at 797; Archer, Faiths Men Live By (2d ed. revised by Purinton), 120-138, 254-313; 1961 World Almanac 695, 712; Year Book of American Churches for 1961, at 29, 47.

    It is important to note that this citation of Secular Humanism as a religion is not merely dictum. The Supreme Court refers to the important 1957 case of Washington Ethical Society v. District of Columbia (101 U.S. App. D.C. 371) in its holding that Secular Humanism is a non-theistic religion within the meaning of the First Amendment.
    The Ethical Culture movement is one denomination of Secular Humanism which reaches moral and cultural relativism, situation ethics, and attacks belief in a spiritual God and theistic values of the Old and New Testaments.
    The Washington Ethical Society case involved denial of the Society's application for tax exemption as a religious organization. The U.S. Court of Appeals reversed the Tax Court's ruling, defined the Society as a religious organization, and granted its tax exemption.
    The Court Stated,
    The sole issue raised is whether petitioner falls within the definition of a "church" or a "religious society" . . . . The taxing authority urges denial of the tax exemption asserting petitioner is not a religious society or church and that it does not use its buildings for religious worship since "religious" and "worship" require a belief in and teaching of a Supreme Being who controls the universe. The position of the tax Court, in denying tax exemption, was that belief in and teaching of the existence of a Divinity is essential to qualify under the statute. . . . To construe exemptions so strictly that unorthodox or minority forms of worship would be denied the exemption benefits granted to those conforming to the majority beliefs might well raise constitutional issues . . . . We hold on this record and under the controlling statutory language petitioner qualifies as "a religious corporation or society" . . . .

    It is incumbent upon Congress to utilize this broad definition of religion in all its legislative actions bearing on the support or non-support of religion, within the context of the "no-establishment" clause of the First Amendment.

    Last edited: 1 minute ago
     
  25. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Most Atheists are also Agnostic in that we do not believe in God (and thus religion) but are bright enough to know what we do not know. As this involves a negative we also know we have no need to "Prove" something we never stated as truth. In order to prove there is no God one must have a description or data or what is to be disproven and that is unavailable. Disproving the literal individual God of someone can and is done by showing impossibility in what is written about it which is then defended as a miracle, which by definition is supernatural and cannot be proven.
    A standard tactic by theism is to switch the burden of proof when confronted to supply it or to rely on faith, which is disingenuous at best and degrades debate immediately.
     

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