New Chinese Nuclear Threat to US

Their words do not trump facts and reality.

Based on your description of the video it is filled with obvious falsehoods.

 

That is incorrect. The historical record is very clear on the fact that we dropped the atomic bombs to make Japan surrender.

It is also very clear on the fact that Japan refused to surrender until after both atomic bombs had already been dropped.

And also very clear on the fact that both atomic bombs were dropped on military targets.

 

Based on your description of it, the only things to be found in that video are lies.

Japan was free to surrender whenever they wanted to.

They chose to wait until we had nuked them twice before offering to surrender.

It sure sounds like this video is giving it a try however.

That is incorrect. Both atomic bombs were dropped on military targets.

Hiroshima was a huge military center filled with tens of thousands of Japanese soldiers, and was the headquarters in charge or repelling our coming invasion.

Nagasaki was an industrial center that built Japan's largest warships.

 

I have actual.quotes.from.several high ranking officers and generals regarding the situation of Japan and all you have is "nuh unh..bro."

Being something other than your failed opinion to the table.

Literally just spammed me with nothing but you saying "nuh unh". Christ all mighty.

 

Their words do not support most of the untrue claims that you made. So I am not sure what you think you really have there.

Actually I said quite a bit more than that.

For example I pointed out that Japan only offered to surrender after both atomic bombs had already been dropped.

And I pointed out the fact that both atomic bombs were dropped on military targets.

Facts and reality are neither failure nor opinion.

No. I provided more than just that.

If you would like some help with the surrender timing, here are some helpful dates:
August 6: Hiroshima
August 9: Nagasaki
August 10: Japan's first offer to surrender

One of those came after the other two.

 

You've said nothing but your failed opinion. I have receipts - quotes- from several high ranking officers that Japan was already in the process of surrendering. You can say they are lying but...uhh...I could give a **** about your personal opinion. "But it happened immediately after the bombings, bro..." Ya. Several high ranking military officers -on record- said it was already in the process of happening. So grats! You dropped the bomb on people who were already in the process of surrendering.

You can call the harbor of Hiroshima a military target, but the bomb was dropped directly in the middle of the city. What was in the middle of the city? Shima Hospital.

As for the impact of the bomb. It isn't any less or worse than that of napalming paper cities which is exactly what the United States had been doing for year leading up to dropping the bomb. Let's take Tokyo for example;

100 000 were estimated to have been killed, another million injured.

Hiroshima?

80,000 were killed immediately and up to 350 000 died well after the surrender from radiation burns and the like.

The impact of the bombs wouldn't have fully sunk in as to have been less ore more devastating than the napalm carpet bombs Japan had been enduring up to that point.

That's receipts. Not your bullshit "nuh unh" arguments.

 

https://www.lawfareblog.com/hiroshima-and-myths-military-targets-and-unconditional-surrender

From the advice of the Target committee regarding the placement of the bomb and the "military targets" lol. The people chosen to select the location of which the bomb should have been dropped. THEIR WORDS;

"The Target Committee ultimately advised leadership “to neglect location of [military] industrial areas as pin point target, since … such areas are small, spread on fringes of cities and quite dispersed” and instead “to place first gadget in center of selected city.”

The munitions factory escaped the blast barely touched. So if the goal was to bomb "military targets" this was a failure. They would have been better off just carpet bombing again.

Carpet bombing which I've just showed you was every bit as deadly as Hiroshima or Nagasaki and of which was something we were doing to Japan relentlessly leading up to their surrender.

 

All nuclear powers use the doctrine of mutual assured destruction as their defense. Yes, China has one nuclear submarine out, we have what, four stationed at any one time, two in the pacific and two in the atlantic. So, this does not suprise me that China is trying to emulate us. And so far, we do know that the protocols in place to launch such a service are similar to that of Russia where no one person has the sole authority to launch them.

So the threat is more of a paper threat in the same way our nuclear forces are a paper threat to China.

 

Generally true. We misinterpreted one japanese word into meaning "we ignore you" but the general fact is tha the council was divided with the Army running the show. Emperor Hirohito was silent during all of the conservations of whether to fight or surrender, which was meant to be taken as a no to surrendering. Even when Emperor Hirohito was going to broadcast the surrender, the army attempted a coup but failed, thankfully,.

I think it was necessary, but we dropped the bomb for two distinct reasons. First and foremost was to save lives in an upcoming invasion. The second was to show the Russians our new toy. At that time, US already began questioning our ally committment to Russia since we wanted free and fair elections, and Russia wanted a buffer zone between Western Europe and Moscow.

 

Are you sure that's not Detroit?

 

LOL no ****...

 

Wrong. I've provided the fact that Japan did not offer to surrender until after both atomic bombs had already been dropped.

I've also provided the fact that both atomic bombs were dropped on military targets.

You have no such thing. Those quotes do not say that. They merely express an opinion that Japan was ready to surrender.

Actually it is facts and history that you do not care for.

I do not call them liars, by the way. I call them goofy and irrelevant. I responded directly to those quotes already. It was my first post in the thread.

Nonsense. Saying that they thought Japan was ready to surrender is not saying that Japan was in the process of surrendering.

And even if someone had made such a claim, it would be contradicted by the historical fact that Japan did not try to surrender until August 10.

Japan didn't bother to actually try to surrender until after both atomic bombs had already been dropped.

The military headquarters in charge of repelling our coming invasion of Japan was also in the middle of the city.

Tens of thousands of Japanese soldiers were also in the middle of the city.

Wrong again. The two atomic bombs did not kill more than 200,000 total. And that's a high estimate.

They seem to have sunk in pretty quickly. Japan already knew what an atomic bomb was from their own atomic program after all.

But so what even if they had not?

Actually no. That's just you making more untrue statements.

I recognize that you find facts and history inconvenient. But no.

Facts and history are not BS.

 

Wrong. The military headquarters that was in charge of repelling our coming invasion of Japan was completely destroyed.

20,000 Japanese soldiers were killed.

That is far from a failure.

The second atomic bomb ran into more problems. But it still managed to destroy the factory that had made the special torpedoes that were used to defeat Pearl Harbor's natural defenses.

Carpet bombing would not have killed 20,000 Japanese soldiers.

Even if we assume for the sake of argument that your claim here is true. So what?

 

We did not misinterpret anything. Japan forcefully rejected the Potsdam Proclamation.

Agreed.

The fact that we hoped that atomic bombs would make the Soviets start behaving does not mean that this is the reason why we dropped atomic bombs on Japan.

 

I love how these multi quote's think they are saying lots but in the end actually say the least amount which is why I can lump all this **** together.

Again, multiple high ranking officials in the know, state that Japan was in the process of surrendering but just didn't know how or what that would look like. But the war was done. That's a fact. Their opinion on the matter trumps yours because...you know? THEY WERE THERE. They were privy to all the conversations and that's their statements. You bombed a country who already gave up and was likely trying to path themselves to a surrender that wouldn't embarrass their Emperor. Grats

Military targets? Hardly. I also have quotes from the people who were in charge of choosing the location having stated that the "military targets" were all sparsely spread out so jump the bomb in the middle of the town/city. (which was a hospital btw Shima Hospital. Look it up.) The effect that these bombs had on "military targets" was so substantial that the munitions warehouse was barely touched. Well done!

The death toll from ONE napalm bombing of Tokyo trumped the toll from ONE Hiroshima. Not two. I am comparing 1 napalm bombing run to 1 atom bomb. 1 for 1. And they are completely comparable. That's numbers and it's facts. We had been napalming Japan relentlessly for months on end to that point. Paper cities do not do well against fire bombs. But they had endured those up until the point where they surrendered. It wasn't like they suffered through 100 000k dead in Tokyo with another MILLION injured and then were shocked! America had their way with bombing Japan. That's the reality of it.

All you keep saying is that Japan surrendered after the atom bombs but then...they were already pathing to do that. So OF COURSE they surrendered after the bombs. But it wasn't BECAUSE of the bombs.

We dropped the bombs to show Russia and the world our new power. That's why we did that.

****in multi-quoters. Bring something beyond your opinion on the matter to the table, this boring.

 

No. Your quotes merely express an opinion that Japan was ready to surrender. They do not say that Japan was in the process of anything at all.

And indeed. Japan did not begin the process of surrendering until after both atomic bombs had already been dropped.

Except, it wasn't done. Japan had not surrendered yet.

That is incorrect. Setting aside the mere fact that opinions do not trump each other to begin with, there is also the fact that nothing they say contradicts what I've said.

Again, all they did was express an opinion that Japan was ready to surrender.

I am privy to all the conversations as well. It's called being educated.

Wrong. Japan did not give up until after both atomic bombs had already been dropped.

Wrong again.

The headquarters in charge of repelling our coming invasion of Japan was a military target.

The tens of thousands of soldiers in Hiroshima were military targets.

Kokura Arsenal (a massive factory complex that made Japan's light and heavy machine guns and machine gun ammo) was a military target.

The Nagasaki Shipyards that built Japan's largest warships was a military target.

The Mitsubishi Ordnance Works (that made the special torpedoes used to attack Pearl Harbor) was a military target.

The military headquarters in charge of repelling our coming invasion of Japan was destroyed.

20,000 Japanese soldiers were killed.

The factory that made special torpedoes for attacking Pearl Harbor was destroyed.

Well done indeed.

Assuming for the sake of argument that your claims here are true, so what?

Assuming for the sake of argument that your claims here are true, so what?

Wrong again. We dropped the atomic bombs because Japan had not surrendered yet.

I realize that you are finding facts to be pretty inconvenient here. But no. Facts are not opinions.

 

Japan was ready to fight to the death... house to house... children trained to fight... women trained. They were ready to die for their GOD/Emporer... like the Kamikaze did. Millions of Japanese and American dead were projected. Today, we don't even understand such a mindset. That doesn't mean it didn't exist. Nagasaki and Hiroshima saved millions of lives... on both sides. The Japanese mindset of those days is as foreign to the west as the ISIS mindset of today is.

 

Let's do a quick check to see how many casualties were civilians versus military. On your "military targeted bomb"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki
Casualties and losses
1 British, 7 Dutch, and 12 American prisoners of war killed Hiroshima: 20,000 soldiers killed 70,000–126,000 civilians killed Nagasaki: 60,000–80,000 killed (within 4 months) At least 150 soldiers killed Total killed: 129,000–226,000.

Wow! According to these numbers we got a whopping 150 soldier in the Nagasaki bomb!

Here's a map of school children at the time of the bombing. Good jeb! Thank God we were able to blanket all of them!


If the goal was "military targets". This was a drastic over kill on a country that was actively in the process of surrendering.

I'll take the quotes of several top ranking officers and generals at the time over your...quotes from nobody in particular.

Bombs were nothing more than a show piece to Russia and the world.

 

Not really no.

 

You are confusing the common people with the leadership.

The leadership was looking for a way out, but one that let them save face. Hence, why they were trying to hard to achieve an armistice and pro quo ante bellum.

 

The second atomic bomb was dropped on weapon factories, not on soldiers.

It should come as no surprise that it destroyed weapon factories instead of killing soldiers.

The destruction inflicted on Japan's military and their war industry was quite satisfactory.

Japan was not in the process of surrendering. They did not begin that process until after both atomic bombs had already been dropped.

Your quotes do not say what you claim, and do not contradict what I say.

And appeals to authority are a logical fallacy.

Wrong again. They were an attempt to make Japan surrender -- something that Japan had not done at that point.

 

And yet how many civilians died? LOL 40,000? So you dropped an atomic bomb to kill 150 soldiers. And the 40,000 civilians was "oops"?

So much so that you hardly touched a munitions factory on the outskirts of Hiroshima.

Nope. They were. I have receipts of top ranking generals and officers including 1 ex president who say they were. You have your feelings.

Nope they do.

Not really no.

We bombed the middle of hiroshima which according to the map I showed, seems to have managed to hit as many schools as possible. As quoted by those who handled the placement of where the bomb should be dropped...they acknowledge that they couldn't take out much of the military targets in Hiroshima so "just drop it in the middle of the city!". What we did was use a flame thrower to kill a spider. Again. I have receipts. You have...nothing.

 

No. We dropped the second atomic bomb to smash weapons factories.

And the damage to the Mitsubishi Ordnance Works (the place that built the special torpedoes for defeating Pearl Harbor's defenses) was quite satisfactory.

Hiroshima was an attack on the Japanese Army, not on their war industry.

It stands to reason that the damage would be done to the Japanese Army and not to Japan's war industry.

Wrong again. Japan did not offer to surrender until after both atomic bombs had already been dropped.

No you don't. All you have is their opinion that Japan was ready to surrender. They do not say that Japan was in the process of surrendering.

Wrong again. I have the fact that Japan did not offer to surrender until after both atomic bombs had already been dropped.

Wrong again. All they did was say that they thought Japan was ready to surrender. They do not say that Japan was in the process of surrendering.

Wrong again. Appeals to authority are a logical fallacy.

They did take out most of the military targets in the city. They destroyed the military headquarters that was in charge of repelling our coming invasion of Japan. They killed 20,000 Japanese soldiers.

That's one dead spider!

Receipts that do not say what you claim and do not contradict what I say.

Wrong again. I have the fact that Japan did not offer to surrender until after both atomic bombs had already been dropped, and the fact that both atomic bombs were dropped on military targets.

 

Amazing that you still have t brought anything to the table besides your opinion.

Wonder why that is?

 

Wrong again. I brought the fact that Japan did not offer to surrender until after both atomic bombs had already been dropped, and the fact that both atomic bombs were dropped on military targets.