New Virginia Gun Control Legislation

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Bowerbird, Feb 17, 2023.

  1. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    is that a logical conclusion or a faith based wish? I suspect that the number of DGUs are in the hundreds of thousands per year. I know I have had several-in only one case did I shoot a mope-the others didn't even make it to a police report.
     
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  2. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Why it sounds credible to me explain why it doesn't to you.
     
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  3. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    People who want to deny this generally are opposed to private citizens being able to defend themselves with firearms. It's why gun banners try to pretend that gun defense only occurs if you KILL a violent felon.
     
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  4. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it doesn't sound credible to him because he doesn't want to believe it.
     
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  5. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    Due to the fact that so few homicides (3%) are justifiable. By extrapolating this number, it should follow that at most 5% of gun uses are self-defense.
     
  6. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    Only 3% of homicides are justifiable. By extrapolating this number, it should follow that at most 5% of gun uses are self-defense.
     
  7. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It depends on what you mean by 'use.' DOJ surveys from the 80s/90s indicate (and logic supports) that a lot of criminals profile carriers of weapons and likely concealers of weapons out of their victim pool. Whats certain is that merely carrying a gun and merely being percieved as likely carrying a gun causes some criminals to choose to avoid crime some of the time. What isn't clear is how often that happens, because no one is funding any studies to try and find out.

    What that means is people who are merely armed and even people who arent are both 'using' weapons to prevent crime. In the context of 'DGUs', included are instances where someone displays or claims to have a gun to prevent from being victimized without ever firing a shot, but also there is the passive effect (not included in DGUs) of criminals avoiding crime due simply to commonly armed citizens and the potential victim never even knows they were considered as a target.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2023
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  8. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    so the only way you can use a firearm defensively is if there is a homicide, you can't fire you can't injure you can't even draw none of that is defensive in your mind?
    How explain how you extrapolated that?
     
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  9. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    I am not an expert in Criminal Justice. This is just my semi-educated guess.
     
  10. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    Many offenders are addicted to drugs and desperate. Thus, they are unlikely to be risk-averse.

    Many offenders have mental problems -- thus they are unlikely to work on risk assessment.

    One way to reduce crime would be by providing help to all people in need. Sadly, American taxpayers are not willing to share.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2023
  11. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    Failing to become a lawyer is one of my failures in life. I would have been more knowledgeable about Crime and Justice. But that is another topic.
     
  12. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    My personal view of guns is the following: they are as dangerous as opioids. Neither guns nor fentanyl kills people, but many people commit suicide by guns and narcotics.

    I believe that guns should be restricted as much as opioids.
     
  13. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for sharing and best luck to you!

    Thank G-d, I only have moderate Depression and Autism and I am provided for.

    Maybe you need a weapon for self-defense. Sadly, many people use firearms for murder and suicide.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2023
  14. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to be educated to explain how you come to these numbers.

    It seems like you're just saying them because you want that to be true is that what it is?
     
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  15. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Very few people use firearms for murder you're more likely to die in a plane accident the safest mode of travel then you are to get murdered by gunfire. I think it's four times more likely to die in a plane accident.

    I think you're concern is misplaced.
     
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  16. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    People with drug addictions and mental illness most often still have the basic human instinct of self preservation. Of course there are a few folks out there who care nothing if they die, but the vast majority of even violent criminals are going to hesitate to victimize someone who poses them a potentially lethal threat.

    You're correct that poverty is a common driver of crime and mental illness, and reducing poverty will reduce violent crime. Perhaps one day we can eliminate poverty and mental illness and violent crime. But gun control wont do that. Until we figure out what will, people need to be able to defend themselves from violent criminals, which will at least reduce violent crime.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2023
  17. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    that's really stupid because you are laboring under the delusion that the only time a gun is used in self defense is when a criminal is KILLED.
     
  18. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    well I have fired close to a million rounds out of firearms. yet, as a 64 year old man, my hearing is better than the average person my age, and my lead levels in my blood are slightly high but no where near being cause for medical concern. I think your fear of guns is rather misplaced and I suspect is mainly a facade for a political agenda
     
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  19. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    I simply cannot believe that a true American would even say such a thing. In recent years, the 'cool kids' have all become socialists, and have no qualms with using theft under threat of imprisonment- or ultimately death if you fail to comply- to support people whose personal responsibilities include supporting themselves.

    When and why did the concept of personal responsibility become a bad thing?
     
  20. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    From what source does one person, or group of persons obtain the authority to tell another sentient conscious person what they can and cannot do with their own bodies, or own the tools for the birthright we all have to defend ourselves?

    Or, to put it a little more bluntly, who in the f*$& are you to tell me I cannot use opioids as I choose, or own a gun to defend my life from a premature termination?
     
  21. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    When you consider the hundreds of millions of firearms currently in circulation in civilian hands in the US, your 'many' is on the order of maybe 1 in 10,000,000. I don't think that would qualify as 'many' in any statistically meaningful sense. As for suicide, if someone is going to off themselves, they'll find a way. Japan is a country with virtually zero firearms in circulation, and their rate of suicide is much higher than that in the US, many times by hanging.

    I'm not suicidal, but if I was, I would probably choose an overdose to do it. However, if my only options were to shoot myself in the head, or to hang myself, give me the gun and stand back. You wouldn't want my blood all over your fresh clean clothes.
     
  22. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    No one cares what other countries do. Literally. None of us.
     
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  23. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    No one gives a **** about UK law.
    No one. Not any of us.

    The right is to keep and bear for self defense. That's settled law ffs. No one cares that you don't like that. No one cares that the UK doesn't allow that.
    Its entirely irrelevant what happens on your sad, soggy little island.
     
  24. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Some care, but on the whole, it's probably why America suffers high gun and knife incidents.
     
  25. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    When discussing fire control, Americans always resort to having your own fire extinguisher.

    ^ That's what you sound like.
     
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