New York Times and Guardian to share Snowden material

When AboveAlpha speaks of "threats," the ones I envision are not threats to Jane and Joe Doe Citizen, but threats to the political and military power elite within any regime, whether in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, or the US.

When things get out of hand the secret police might terminate the political opposition with extreme prejudice, or, more commonly, examine their business and tax records to find irregularities or ways to trump up accusations.

 

You know what....of all the members on this forum you could have asked this question you actually asked the only member here who is capable of providing you an answer but will NOT.

The NSA since running the IBM Software back in the 70's known as ECHELON which is the first software we used to record and scan every single electronic communication occurring on Earth as it is one thing to record and store all that data it is ANOTHER THING ENTIRELY to be capable of finding what your looking for within it.....the NSA has located a HUGE NUMBER OF THREATS after which various other U.S. Agencies take over and neutralize such threats.

I have talked to some members who think this world is all candy canes, sugar plums, unicorns and rainbows and I can tell you right now never a MOMENT passes where someone or some group is not planning some type of attack or violent action upon U.S. Agency, Civilian or Military Personal and our Allies.

The REASON people such as yourself don't hear about this is because we do a VERY good job at making sure such attacks never happen....but some do.

The world is a VERY dangerous place.

AboveAlpha

 

First of all I am NOT Military and as well I do NOT take orders from anyone.

I am a Patriot and a Citizen that VOTES and being a Massachusetts Independent I have voted for Democrat, Republican and Independent Candidates as I do not vote along any Party lines.

I am the total opposite to what you infer.

AboveAlpha

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There is ALWAYS oversight by Congressional Committee.

AboveAlpha

 

Your location is posted as England.

Funny you should post like this since ENGLAND is on the FRONT LINES OF PREVENTION as far as any data gained by the NSA and handled by the CIA.

AboveAlpha

 

Yes and these "anti-terror" methods makes it more dangerous.

I have heard of foiled attacks, just none that were helped by the mass data-grab. It's pure heresay.. They claimed like 50 plots, then it was like 25, it kept lowering, until they concluded it's none.

Even if they didn't reach that conclusion, you still know it anyway because they can't cite a SINGLE instance of when the NSA program ever helped defend the United States. Instead, we can name specific cases of where the information was abused, like for commercial purposes, criminal purposes, cracking down on whistlblowers, journalists etc.

They just want all the dirt they can about as many people as they can on the planet, for power. Because the data is power. It has f-all to do with keeping Americans safe. IF they wanted to do that, they could engage AQ in Syria instead of give them weapons and cash. They could save lives fighting the domestic street gang terrorists instead.

 

The people who have abused it were mostly specific higher ranking employees that had some Congressman and Corporation asking to get data on other Corporations and things of that nature.

This set up was initially designed to detect Soviet Espionage Activities in the United States and Europe.

Now it is being used from everything from keeping tabs on Russia, Iran, North Korea and China to helping keep a watch on various Terrorist Orgs.

It is an EXTREMELY useful tool but any abuse of it tends to occur in the Civilian Sector.

AboveAlpha

 

First of all, you can't possibly know that. You have no idea the full scope, nor what all they have done. Nobody knows. Not even the congress get to know everything. So you can't pretend like you know what they use it for or not. You can't know it's "valuable" because you don't know what it achieves, specifically. You just assume it does. You can't know if it's worthwile either, because we don't know how much we really spend on it. We can know SOME of the things they do when we get evidence. And so far as the specifics, as of now, it's nothing but abuse of people's information.

Even in the civilian sector, it doesn't matter. You're not secure in your own data and records. A lot of this is privatized. We get spied on by corporations and the government working together. Practical application of profound plutocracy.

Besides, even if you could say it's worthwhile, it still doesn't change the fact that it's against the law. Did you not swear an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic?

 

I cannot discuss if I either swore to do something or even if I swore in at all.

What I have said about the NSA is information I happen to be aware of but if you read my post I stated..."The people who have abused it were mostly..".....MOSTLY....I did not say all of them were what I stated they were and I stand by my post.

AboveAlpha

 

United States Intelligence Community Oversight

NSA surveillance helped foil more than 50 attacks, officials say

 

YEP!!!

That's just the one's made PUBLIC!!!

The actual number is MUCH higher.

AboveAlpha

 

Yes, and nobody is happy with your NSA spy base at Menwith Hill. We would like it out of our country, the same as we wanted your nukes out of England. They eventually went, and so will your NSA goons.
http://www.caab.org.uk/

 

You don't know that; you just pretend you do just as your Secret Squirrel 'TEAM' is a pretence. Let's try a little test; if you're as au fait with the world of covert ops as you allege, then you should have no difficulty in finding my address and phone number. Why don't you PM them to me. If you pass this simple test I'll believe what you say. Fair enough?

 

If you think the U.S. has removed all it's Nukes out of the U.K. then I have some Florida Swamp Land I am willing to sell you as well!!

The facts are that while many Leaders in the U.K. understanding many angry sentiments are being expressed by their people over the NSA....such U.K. Leaders are also aware that the U.K. Military and MI6 is very dependent upon such NSA garnished data and intelligence.

So your leaders say...DAMN AMERICAN'S AND THEIR NSA!!!....out of one side of their mouths and out of the other side your leaders say to us....Hey...sshhhh...don't worry...everything is AOK!!

AboveAlpha

 

Except that two independent White House reviews and a Federal court, both with access to classified information, showed that these claims were unfounded. But by all means carry on believing the 'officials', because, as we know, they never lie...after all, they only have your best interests in mind.
http://www.caab.org.uk/

 

We don't need the NSA here-we have our own spying capability at GCHQ-and I certainly don't want YOUR country violating MY rights on MY soil.

 

Both Republican and Democrat politicians in Congress claim that they had no idea that a police state was being created, so how did this monstrosity develop and get funded? Did it just spontaneously metastasize without anyone's knowledge? Would it be there if the powers-that-be, the regime, the political elite, didn't want it?

You apparently think that the CIA/NSA secret police complex is a positive thing and worth the money, as does Congress. Some others think that more attacks on citizens are prevented by women with hand guns in their purses, and people being careful about who they associate with and where they walk on dark nights.

 

To the extent that the scope and reach of NSA domestic spying (which is all that I actually care about) was allowed to get out of hand the reason is two-fold. First, the Right figured that after a much smaller bru-ha-ha over the issue occurred during the G.W. Bush administration -- and the leftwing segments of the Mainsteam Media went absolutely ballistic over it -- a mortified Legislative Branch, in conjunction with the Judicial Branch (as I recall, that is), immediately leaped into panic mode response and set up several safeguards which they AND their leftwing counterparts figured had permanently fixed the problem.

Second; so then when this 'oh so civilized and enlightened' kumbaya-inclined, Constitutional-Scholar of a leftwing ideal of the perfect IMAGE of a president came along nobody (including rightwing legislators) even dreamed that he would begin pushing behind the scenes (using plausible deniability intermediaries, of course) to 'pump up the volume' and hence effectively use all those previously installed safeguards for his own personal roll of toilet paper.

So then this Snowden fellow came along and . . . .

 

Why can't you discuss?

Even "mostly" is something you still couldn't possibly know. Unless you're in on it.. Which means you shouldn't be posting about it here. Otherwise, you offered unverifiable anonymous anecdote.

You did not provide any "information" about the NSA.. Snowden provided information about the NSA. You didn't.

 

What you think is reality and what IS reality are two different things entirely.

AboveAlpha

 

You don't understand the issue.

The problem is not the CIA or NSA as they are simply TOOLS.

The PROBLEM is the Politicians and the Corporations that get them elected.

After all who are you going to blame if a Road Crew accidentally starts digging a hole in your driveway?

The guys who are part of the Road Crew?

Or the guys who told them that was the place to dig?

AboveAlpha

 

If I had the chance I would put two in Snowden's Head and two in his Heart.

I don't care if he exposed any illegalities....he could have Blown the Whistle to a special Committee of Senators.

A person like Snowden SHOULD NEVER expose anyone to the enemy or other agents.

Why I can't discuss certain things I think would be OBVIOUS to anyone with Half a Brain.

AboveAlpha

 

There has not been any doubt in my mind in years that the CIA and the NSA are simple tools, much as the SAVAK, the KGB, the Mossad, and the Gestapo are, or have been, simple tools, but it seems that the Swiss, Costa Ricans, and many other people get along well without those simple tools, and without having to pay those simple tools

By the way, guns are simple tools, and have been proven effective for self-protection in many instances.

 

Swiss???? Costa Ricans????

We are talking about the UNITED STATES!!!

We are talking about a nation that has the #1 Economy on the Planet at $17.7 TRILLION!!!

We are talking about the nation that is the #1 Manufacturer on the Planet!!

We are talking about the nation that is by itself keeping the worlds economy afloat as the U.S. is the #1 Consumer Nation on the Planet!!

We are talking about the nation that grows more food than than the #2 through #7 Top Food Producing Nations PUT TOGETHER!!!

We are talking about the nation that the U.N. Famine and Disease Committee has determined is BY ITSELF...responsible for preventing the death and starvation of over 1.8 BILLION PEOPLE as a result of U.S. AID Food and Medicine Donations.

We are talking about the nation were the PRIVATE DONATIONS OF IT'S CITIZENS OF FOOD, MEDICINE AND OTHER AID....is greater than all the donations of aid from all governments in the E.U. PUT TOGETHER!!!

We are talking about the nation who's Navy is solely responsible for keeping International Shipping Lanes open and protected WORLDWIDE!!!

We are talking about the nation who's Private Sector is responsible for creating the technology that was necessary for starting WORLD BUSINESS AND ECONOMIC TRENDS....as example.....APPLE...Personal Computer...MICROSOFT....Windows.....MOTOROLLA....SMALL CELL PHONES....U.S. MILITARY...Internet..etc.

We are talking about the nation that was the Most Powerful Military On EARTH in HISTORY which was responsible for WINNING THE COLD WAR!!!

We are talking about the nation that was chosen to be the host country for the UNITED NATIONS!!!

The list goes on and on and on.

You can't compare the necessity of having agencies such as the CIA and NSA in such nations as Switzerland and Costa Rica compared to the ABSOLUTE NECESSITY that the United States have such agencies.

When something bad might happen to another nation....the effects tend to be primarily limited to that effected nation.

When something bad happens to the United States.....EVERY NATION ON THE PLANET IS EFFECTED!!!!!

The result of 9/11 within a few weeks was the beginning of a DEEP WORLDWIDE RECESSION!!!!

When the American Stock Market even so much as hiccups....MARKETS AROUND THE WORLD FLUCTUATE!!

The facts are that such agencies as the CIA and the NSA are CRITICALLY NEEDED to prevent a multitude of possible threats from happening which if they did would EFFECT EVERY NATION AND PERSON ON PLANET EARTH!!!!!

AboveAlpha

 

Do you believe that any person, group, or government, has a legitimate, ethical, right restrict individuals from owning guns for personal protection? Maybe I missed this earlier on, but I'm just trying to find out where you are coming from.

 

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

The only times gun restrictions should be put in place is when a person after getting a back ground check is shown to have committed a FELONY.....and any Automatic Weapons cannot be allowed to be sold.

Another issue I have is that I can take a Chinese Made AK-47 that is sold at just about any Gun Store in the U.S. and using a small FILE and a few other things CONVERT SUCH A WEAPON TO FULL AUTOMATIC IN A SHORT TIME!!!

Although it has been made much more difficult to do I can also do this to an AR-15 using more time.

Gun Manufacturers need to be required to make it IMPOSSIBLE for any weapon to be modified and easily converted to FULL AUTOMATIC.

AboveAlpha