NFL Kneeling

And you have proven my point.

 

And you have proven mine.

 

Because someone just acted like this was news to them, let me try to paint a picture.

Two young men. The first loves his country and is proud to serve her. He goes off to war, and in the process of fighting, he is captured. Badly broken, he is beaten and battered then thrown into prison camp where he along with his fellow American warriors are regularly beaten.

The second is absurdly wealthy, soft and pampered, he has everything bought for him, never has to work a day in his life and any of his weaknesses and transgressions are bought and paid for. Because of his father's wealth, his duty to his country is bought and paid for. He decides not to go to war for his country. His country is beneath him. He is special and delicate. He is not meant to go to war. It's the duty of others to cater to and carry him. He gladly accepts his father's influence to buy him out of his duty.

The first man it turns out also has an influential father. And he finds out that because of that influence, he can come home too. But he refuses. He doesn't accept favors from governments hostile to the United States. As a result he spends five and a half years not just in prison, but tortured constantly. His arms are torn out of their sockets regularly. He hears the screams of his friends every day, and many of them die.

The second many years later feels it is his right to be the most famous person in the country. He runs for president. We wonder if he understands this country and what others sacrificed for it. When discussing the fact that he (supposedly) didn't contract an std, he shows is appreciation for the dedication of men like the former by saying "It’s like Vietnam, sort of. It is my personal Vietnam. I feel like a great and very brave solider." When asked if he understands the sacrifices of the family of a fallen soldier he replies "I think I've made a lot of sacrifices. I work very, very hard."

The first refused any favors from a foreign government even if it meant the cessation of actual torture. The second immediately accepted favors from a hostile foreign government, and openly regularly and freely helps spout propaganda for that government and their murderous leader. When asked about it, he displays his love and appreciation for his country "You think our country's so innocent?"

He does an incredibly poor job during the election says many worrying and childish things. The first is troubled by this and says so. The second is a man and understands how to take criticism and how to respect the sacrifice of American warriors. "I like people who weren’t captured.” (criticism that by extension would have to apply to anyone killed captured or wounded in defense of this country)

One of these men represents the country. One of them is the Commander in Chief of all armed armed forces in the United States. Everything that he does represents you and me. He is part of a long proud tradition of men who took their job seriously and loved their country more than they loved themselves. He repeatedly embarrasses himself and all of us by making obscene and ridiculous statements particularly on novelty internet apps meant for teenage girls. He continually uses his office for his personal gain and vanity.

Also there are a couple of guys that play a little game with no affect on our safety and do not represent the country in any way. They also have been disrespectful to the traditions of this country.

 

"Auntie Maxine” is the name many millennials have given to California Congresswoman Maxine Waters.

Ever since President Trump has taken office, Waters has been one of his many outspoken critics, and her no nonsense attitude is making her a millennial favorite."
https://www.jetmag.com/news/millennials-love-maxine-waters/

 

Can you explain why all of the MSMedia and Cable news networks all reported on the issue last year before Trump became President? Then reported it all the way up until even before Trump says anything. Basically due to the Kapernick connection.

Maybe you should look up why 72% of Americans didn't care for Kapernick or any others politicizing football.

 

God Bless Trump.

Amen.

 

How do millenials tilt the vote? Millenials are the entire left.
She must do things that attract the younger people.

 

You put some time and effort into that, so I'll give you some feedback.

I'm a peacetime Army vet. My son is a Purple Heart war vet. I have a great deal of respect for all who served in the past and who serve in the present.

On Trump: I have cringed many times at things he has said, including those about McCain. Trump certainly has his flaws.

On McCain: I respect his service and sacrifice in the Viet Nam War. I voted for him for president in 2004, but I didn't vote for him with much enthusiasm. In recent years, I have been a vocal critic of McCain, in particular for his unabashed penchant for yet more unnecessary war and interventionism. He seems to believe that "U.S. leadership" is defined as never-ending involvement in wars, and that "U.S. weakness" is defined as "the absence of war". (I am not an anti-war dove, but I believe we should limit our involvement in wars to defending ourselves and our close allies. I oppose intervention in middle eastern civil wars - like in Libya and Syria - that are not our business. I also feel no particular kinship with Ukraine, another conflict McCain would like us to get more deeply into.) And now, in the present, it is my opinion that McCain is acting simply out of revenge against Trump. To his credit, I don't think we'll ever see John McCain taking a knee during the anthem for any reason. He has had a long, yet fairly unremarkable congressional career other than his run for president. He has fit in well with "permanent Washington". I take no pleasure in knocking him now, for he is very sick, but that's how I see it.

On the NFL players: I disagree with you that they "do not represent the country in any way." Professional athletes are role models. They may not wish to be, but it just goes with the territory whether they seek it or not. When they accept those giant contracts and get national TV coverage, they should understand that and accept it as one of the responsibilities of being one of the elite professionals in their sport. This, by the way, is nothing new.

But this whole issue has little to do with Trump or McCain as far as I'm concerned. As I told you, I had strong feelings about it before Trump said anything about it.

My point of view is that the anthem gives a few minutes to give thanks to all the Americans who gave us this country, its freedom, its wealth, and its opportunity. It is also a good time to commit to making it better. For 241 years, this country has been a work in progress, and we can give respect to past Americans by committing to keep that work going. It is also offers a few moments of unity, remembering that, in spite of our differences, we are all in this together.

Therefore ... Let's render that respect for the 2 or 3 minutes it asks for, and let's engage in politics and activism later. There's a time and place for everything.

Seth

 

Wow, you really hate America.

This is not enough, this is like saying jeffrey dahmer has eccentric diet restrictions.

You can debate his politics all you want. You cannot remotely debate his service. This is what trump debated and way way too many and too vehemently his supporters. I see no reason to imagine in any way McCain has ever acted in anything other than what he considers best for his country (how misguided that may be is up for debate, that's all). Trump however is quite the opposite.

They are not the PRESIDENT!!

I don't disagree, but if we can muster outrage for the nfl than we should have endless energy for trump. You can be outraged by both, but you can't be outraged by the nfl and not trump. The math just isn't there.

 

No, those are opinion, some of them shared by many. But how dare you try to change the definition of the word "opinion" as a new poster on this forum. You have officially ruined any credibility in your stay here.

You just don't get what an opinion is, I am sorry I can longer have this debate with you when you keep flat out ignoring my requests and continue to not tell the truth.

THIS is why people are Trump fans, they are sick of partisans like you on both sides.

Congratulations, you did more than the Russians to get Trump elected

 

I think the difference between us is that, for you, this is all about Trump. For me, it's about respect for the anthem, flag, and country.

Presidents come and go, but my loyalty to my country, and my respect for her, remain strong and unchanged, no matter who the president is. As I told you before, I detested Hillary Clinton, but, had she won, it would have had zero effect on my loyalty and respect for my country.

Seth

 

No, to be fair I've done nothing to influence anyone in any way, and that may be it's own crime. However, other than ranting on this crappy forum (my tenure on which has no bearing on anything whatsoever), I keep pretty quiet.

Now, what really got trump elected was ignoring reality. People who hoped things would be true because they wanted them to be despite all facts to the contrary. "Alternative facts" being their catch phrase. The real problem is that I'm ONLY telling the truth. Whitewashing and making things more politically correct might make things more palatable , but in reality, probably even easier to ignore. Cold hard truth is all there really is in life.

I realize I'm being a dick, but lets be honest, trump voters like dicks. Let me be sure that's clear: TRUMP VOTERS LIKE DICKS AND THE BIGGER THE BETTER. After all, that's all trump ever offered. He never offered any policies, not any that didn't come from cheap facebook memes anyway. He never offered any intelligence or competence. What he offered was being a dick. He pissed off Americans that people didn't like. There was nothing more than that.

Now, vaccines don't cause autism, all facts point that direction. tom brady has murdered hardly any young boys, john wayne gacy murdered lots. And of course, hillary was bad, might have been one of the worst presidents ever (although she probably would have just been fair to middling), trump was and has been an abject failure and is a complete disaster in every way. There isn't really anything you could put trump in charge of that hillary wouldn't run better. These aren't opinions, or at least not "just" opinions, they are all things that all the facts lead to. Following facts, and being honest, overcoming inherent personal bias is the only way anybody has ever made any advancements and anything has ever gotten better.

I'm not partisan. I'm vehemently anti-trump, but I'm also anti-cancer, anti-aids, anti-nazi, anti-communism, and anti anything that's objectively terrible. Saying you are on the fence on trump is what is technically called "false-balance", but is also like being on the fence on segregation. It's not really being centrist.

 

Black guys protest by kneeling during the national anthem. White guys protest by running over young women with their cars and shooting up crowds of people at a concert.

 

So, here's how this conversation is going for me:

Me: Why are we spending so much time worrying about a cold when we have cancer??

You: I just don't like having a cold.

Me: Yeah, I hate the cold too.... but why are we worrying about a cold when we have CANCER??

You: You know, some people prefer having cancer to a cold. It's all a matter of opinion.

Me: No! nobody would really prefer that... (lists a small portion of some of the terrible terrible things about cancer)

You: I don't know, I think for you this is just about he cancer.

Me: Oh my god! Of course it's about the cancer! We have *******ned cancer!!

Look, it can't be about respect for the country if you are ok with a much bigger insult to the country LEADING that country. You shouldn't lose loyalty and respect for your country, in fact, just sitting by while this stain wipes his ass with the flag every day IS showing disrespect and disloyalty for your country.

 

This is the internet, but I'm going to take a guess that you are younger than I am. I'm 62.

As one grows older, one starts to look at things in the big picture rather than the short-term immediate picture.

My age and experience tells me that presidents come and go. Some you like; some you don't. I can tell you that I would have absolutely detested Hillary.

But I am able to see the bigger picture, perhaps because of my age. A president is a small picture. They have their time, and then they're gone to history.

For me, the big picture is my country. And it is not just us. It is those who have come before us, and it is those who will follow after us. This is my nation.

My nation has had its dark times. But it has also had its successes, and I see it as still a work in progress.

So from my perspective, you may detest Trump just as much as I would have detested Hillary. But that doesn't transfer to my nation. It doesn't transfer to those who came before us. It doesn't transfer to the many very good people in the present. And it doesn't transfer to those who will follow after we're gone.

We are the luckiest people who have lived on Earth for more reasons than I care to list, and that should be self-evident.

I shall not marry my love of my country, my nation, my people - to my feelings about a particular president.

Seth

 

I am younger, but I'm also right.


Presidents do come and go, but none have ever remotely (including hillary) been this much of an insult to the country. Football players come and go even quicker. In the end, if trump doesn't offend you, then neither do football players.

They both offend me, but football is on an immeasurably smaller level.

It is only BECAUSE I love this country that I hate trump. That's not opinion or point of view, he is just way more offensive than football. If he doesn't offend you on the deepest level, then football doesn't on any level.

Let me edit and add: You keep saying you won't hate this country as if hating the President equates to hating the country. The reality, is that UNLESS you hate the country, you should hate THIS President. He is not the country, he is just pretending he is which is all the worse.

 

But, you see, Trump has offended me at times.

But that does not color my respect for my nation, its flag, or its anthem. I do not join the two.

So, you see, when I feel like my nation, its flag, or its anthem is being shown disrespect, it offends me.

Look, if anyone wants to take a stand on an issue of the day, I support that. I just think that during the anthem is the wrong time for it.

Seth

 

I edited my last post, but suffice it to say, I do understand we aren't that far apart, but if you are going to speak out on football, then you have to speak out on this President. Any other time or president it's different, but not this time.

 

When compared to the alternative....Trump voters made the right choice.

 

Really? You cannot think of any murderous activities that Blacks or other minority groups have ever engaged in during one of their 'peaceful protests' that almost inevitably they turn into violence? You do know that the 'history' taught to students in both public schools and colleges by what are essentially Marxist teachers is not REALLY history? Perhaps a visit to a genuine library for some independent research could fix what the modern educational system has perverted. It would behoove one to at least begin with the actual truth before spouting off about these issues.