Obama defines the Question of the Age

be careful with a guy like Obama.Watch what he says on the one hand
and keep a sharp eye out for what the other hand is doing.
Obama is up to his old tricks.Using the cable outlet MSNBC to
bandy about a huge Lie.That Obama is trying to save and help
Lean Forward the Middle class.Pure BULL.Nothing could be further from the
truth.If you'll notice Obama likes to say stuff that he knows the Electorate
loves to hear.How he can bring us back from the brink.Get us out of the
Bush ditch.It's all meant to dupe the Masses.
Now Obama is out insisitng he's a friend of the Middle Class and
The American Dream.In actuality Obama has done more to
jeopardize the American Dream and the standard of living of those in the
Middle Class than any President,EVER.Therefore the need for him and
MSNBC to lie and say Obama istrying to help/save our Middle Class.
You don't do that by creating record levels of regulations.
Or by out of control Government spending.
Obama is trying to usher-in a Socialist/Communist model where there
are just TWO Classes.The Proletariate {lower classes,including beggars}
and the Ruling class { once the Bourgeois or property owners,now the
Bosses }.Government jobs will be lower class jobs that are basically
menial,paper-pushing and memos.Things related to mere government
regulations and their enforcement.Trade work or manufacturing will be
under the authority of the State,and also lower class work,therefore
wage scale and no higher.No incentive to progress beyond one's simple
station in life.Bourgeois type authority will be based on currying favor
not proficiency.Rulling class work will be set in stone,and based on
pure politics.That is the Obama model.Pretty much the way Obama runs
his White House and Cabinet.Obama has no need to even consult with
his Cabinet,therefore his Czars or guys like Andy Stern and Richard Trumka.
Or even a closet czar like Van Jones.Pure Kafkaesque.
Very cloaked in secrecy and behind closed doors.The way ObamaCare was
crafted and Committee'd.The only way Nancy Pelosi knows.
Her way or the Highway.
One more term of Obama,and the American model of a burgeoning and
thriving Middle Class will be lost,forever.That is why Obama and his toady
sychophants Love Unemployment Compensation extensions.
Love the Food Stamp program.It's a conditioning away from what made
this Country Great.The condition of being on one's own and the freedom to
choose.Obama has to somehow make a Nanny State appealing/necessary.
Demonize anyone who dares to suggest that Food Stamps are not a
good thing.That Unemployment Compensation isn't necessary.
Got it now.

 

This has always been the problem with Democrat politicians. If they are honest and straight forward with their constituents, those people will not vote for them anymore. Because the entire Democratic platform is built on telling people what they want to hear whether it is true or not. They were the "fun parent" that let you eat all the ice cream you want, let you skip school, and never gave you a set bed time. So the people who will find their message appealing will be the people who live to gratify their id and lower animal nature and literally do not understand the need for any kind of self-restraint or personal responsibility. As a result of this, Republicans are seen as the "mean parent" that always made them do things they didn't want to do. And they only see the Republican message (a.k.a. the cold hard facts of life) as trying to ruin their fun instead of trying to help prepare them to succeed in the world. If the Democratic party begins expressing even the slightest echo of the "mean parent's" message, it will disenfranchize the Peter Pan voting base, and the Democratic party will lose power. They have painted themselves into such a corner that the only way they can continue to remain a relevant political force now is by intentionally misleading the people that vote for them. This is why they get so hostile when someone quotes them accurately, points out a logistical flaw in their position, or shines a light on an inconvenient factual truth; because it is terminally damaging to their survival on the political stage.

 

Bill Gates, Obama, George Bush (both), your Congress, all GOP candidates, Soros, the Apple guy, the Koch Bros etc... etc... are NOT STRUGGLING!

 

No question about it.That is why the MSM or Lamestream is an absolute
requirement for any Democrat success.The ability to use the media or
Press to an unfair advantage.Hiding important truths and propagating
whatever Lie du Jour that propels with political expediency an agenda.
It's how Obama got elected.I prefer Erected.Because Obama was never
vetted.Not even the tiniest bit.Anyone daring to call him a Liberal
{with only Bernie Sanders having a more liberal voting record in
the Senate } was quickly attacked as if a Racist.Obama was willy nilly
declared a " Moderate " by this Lyin,sycophantic Lamstream who
acted shameless and toady throughout the Obama Campaign.
Obama and his Dimocrats actually loathe the Middle Class and
any Oppostion.Where most Conservatives relish the thought for
hardy debate in the arena of idea's.
It's a choice the masses will eventually be forced to confront.
Continue on with a loyal allegiance to a Party of Lies,Liars and
Hoodwinkers like the Dimocrats OR set thyself free and use one's
own brain cells.

 

This thread is dangerously close to failing.

Do not focus on the monetary pay - focus on quality of life - this is where all those funny indexes come in - so you don't have to do the math about "New York Teachers get paid $$$$, but it costs more to live in New York than New Mexico blah blah."

Silicon is partly right - you need to educate everyone to the limit of their comprehension - and do it throughout their lives, if you want to maximise Americas human capital - which is what really matters.

To put that another way; I know for a fact - its a statistical certainty, that the worlds best neurosurgeons, Nobel prize winning scientists, at least One brilliant Supreme court judge and perhaps a dozen Steve Jobs and Bill Gates will never exist - because their innate intelligence and curiosity were crushed by the experience of attending rotten public schools in bad neighborhoods - and you are all the poorer for it.

Where Silicon is wrong is his prescription that everybody needs an secondary - academic - education to succeed. Some kids are not cut out for book work, they need to work with their hands as plumbers or other craftsmen. Why should they be denied a decent living?

Then of course their are the wheelers and dealers who have what I call an "informal" education - salesmen, bond market traders, etc. Did you know that many firms don't want University graduates as traders? They are too slow because they try to analyze things.

Then there are the uneducated - all they have to trade is their labor. If they cannot find work, then crime appears to be the next option.

As I continue to point out, if you don't put a safety net under the poorest of the poor, they will turn to crime. And of course the costs of crime is much higher than the cost of providing the safety net. But then too many people don't understand that economics is not a morality play.

 

First the wealthy came after those with only a high school education and I didn't say anthing. Then they came after those with only a college or quality trade school education and I didn't say anything. Then they came after me and there was no one left to say anything.

 

Rather the opposite. Liberals get so wrapped up in being "sympathetic" and "caring" that they neither notice nor care that their policies are recklessly and ruinously irresponsible.
The only retort they have is "you're mean", "you're heartless", etc. Same thing a spoiled 6 year old says when daddy tells her he can't afford to buy her a pony.
Policy needs to be set by people who are mature enough to set their emotions aside and deal with them rationally. We can't have the toddlers running the household.

 

Newt Gingrich was entirely correct to point out that many of today's
urban Poor have no forseeable mentors.No one in the neighborhood,
let alone an absent father to look at and notice a work ethic.That isn't
something that a Public Education can help.Plus Public Education is
run by the Dept.Of Education which is in the pocket of the Democrat Party
as a Huge Lobbying partner.Plus the teachers union.

 

Considering the SYSTEM and various social-devices THROWN AT and LAID UPON the minorities in American society... they have accomplished a great deal overall, even when compared to the "majority" culture.

Ultimately however... ALL Americans must be lifted (economically) in order for America itself to do well as a nation. Some fools think that we can leave masses of people behind and prosper as a nation... but of course, they are mistaken.

 

Bingo, we have a winner.

 

Not everyone wants to be a millionaire. There are some who do make an honest wage while being under educated. I know of several small business owners performing jobs they are very skilled at making decent wages. Yet they are content in their abilities in taking care of their families.

I disagree that poverty leads to crime. Actually crime levels are going down in some areas with people at the poverty level. There are those who manage using creativity in making money to pay their bills. A gentlemen decided to put his B-B-Q smoker, and a small trailor to use by selling his products on the side of the road. One must decide to either be creative or spend time in prison.

 

Why can't it be? It used to be back in the 1950s, where you could get a job right out of high school at the local factory, be able to buy a modest house, buy a car, have your wife stay home, send your kids to college, and have a pension to retire on. Plus, in the 1950s, America was the strongest nation in the world.

So tell me what changed? Basically greed and free trade. Now we have to pay our CEOs 400 times the average worker instead of 20 times. Our workers have to compete with $100/month Chinese factory workers. The only economics that has changed is the economics of greed and the corporate monkeys who believe their masters lies.

P.S. Greece was just fine for 50 years untill free trade came along.

 

I believe you are ascribing sentiments to the OP that are not in evidence. I believe what he is saying is the in-your-face truth and that is there will be no entry level jobs anymore that can pay the kind of wages to have what Owebama defines.

Let's face it, working at McWendy's simply isn't going to do it for o=you anymore. They can't get enough engineers and code crunchers at Microsoft, while they are turning away salespeople.

And the OP is right. The Democrats need to get honest and fess up, as well as start promoting job skills training and so forth

 

rational and moral don't have to be opposites, there is plenty of money in this country to be redistributed to take care of the poor its just a matter of getting the wealthy to agree to subtracting some of their wealth for social needs

emotions are also a good political strategy as class warfare has made some voters look at the legitimacy of it

 

That would only ever happen under socialism. 50 years ago, it was possible support a family with a low skilled job and no govt assistance. Now that we are rapidly approaching a true socialist system, it's getting harder and harder for the middle class to survive. we are being divided up into the rich and the poor

 

Yeah, apperantly you don't work in a "right to work" state.

 

This is bullcrap. Why is it that minorities, specifically blacks, were far more economically and socially successful under Jim Crow than they are today? Sure, they had poverty, but most escaped to the northern cities where they found good jobs, lead good, wholesome family lives. They cared for their neighbors and looked out for each other. Harlem was a golden dream in the center of New York. Chicago and Detroit were meccas of black education, culture and refinement. These cities defined Middle Class Black despite the existence of mass racism in the nation.

Under all measures, blacks after the Civil Rights movement should've blossomed en masse and had an even larger renaissance than they did after the Civil War into the 40's. Instead they, as a people, stagnated and declined. Why?

All Americans are lifted in their quality of life compared to 1980. Virtually all of us have cell phones, regardless of wealth. Virtually all of us have all the modern conveniences of life, regardless of wealth. Virtually all of us drive, regardless of wealth. Virtually all Americans want for nothing in regards to food, regardless of wealth.

WTF ELSE IS THERE? A suburban house with a manicured lawn and a pickett fence? Sorry, that is the one thing reserved for the Middle Class educated in America today.

What you want, is for everyone to live in some kind of palatial splendor, regardless of wealth. You want people who can barely read/write to have make upper middle class incomes, and if they can't do it themselves.. you are perfectly willing to take from those who can and give it to those who can't regardless of merit or anything else.

Liberals don't believe in meritocracy, and that is un-American. The Protestant Work Ethic of our Founding Fathers demands that the exceptional live exceptional lives and the mundane live whatever they can live. That is the truism we have lived by for 223 years.. what right do you have to suddenly change the social bargain made?

 

I think you have that backwards, Socialists don't divide society into rich and poor. That would be your corporate daddies who try to divide America. They even give you BS reasons why we can't tolerate or afford to have the poor or under-educated among us.

 

no liberals want the people on the bottom to have a reasonable lifestyle,

no one is suggesting everyone be millionaires but they are entitled to safer public housing communities, health care that is not biased for the wealthy, increased food subsidies , and a little extra cash for deposit in the bank or spending

 

Well sorry.. but there is such a thing as a "moral hazard".

 

Huh, what fantasy history are you writing? The reason blacks did better in the "good old days" was because everyone was doing better in the "good old days". We had strong unions and high tariffs protecting manufacturing jobs and wages for everyone. Now your corporate masters have brainwashed you into thinking thiat these " middle class" blue collars are unsustainable. [/QUOTE]

LOL Are you saying that the poor should just be happy because they have cell phones and fast food? It was the working class that built this country, made it the most powerful nation in the world, even with a uneducated workforce. But they could use their hands and their strength. They made the best products in the world. They may have never went to college, but they worked hard for everything they had and a grateful nation felt it necessary to award them with at least a living wage. Such evil liberal thinking.

 

SiliconMagic,, keep up, get on the same page and wake up fom your self induced coma.

Industrial cities like Detroit are always gong to be hardest hit in times of high unemployment. Unskilled and semi-skilled workers the hardest hit.

Big business and corporations pulled the rug out from beneath unskilled and semi-skilled workers by chasing that elusive profit dollar and moving their industries offshore.

America is no longer the industral powerhouse it was 20 or 30 years ago and will never recover.

 

I was going to reply to Silicon; but collectively, the attentive participants here have seen through the vicious nonsense he's trying to promote (as truth).

I think middle class Americans and others (including the nation's "minorities") are right to look at the kind of views which Silicon spews, and reject them outright.

 

We finally agree on something, Leffe. But, what do we do about the fact that schools exist not for the students but for the teachers and their union?

 

While it is true that rich and poor will always exist, education systems can be designed to maximize employment and the skill level of your labor force.

Our unwillingness to mimic the practical approach of the Germans is a large part of why we have labor problems here.

Quite simply, only certain people are good at academics. The rest are better at trades. Our system pretends that everyone should be an academic. This is not only impractical, but it's also deceitful.

We need to invest more in business co-ops with trade schools. Plenty of jobs are available for high skill trades, and companies want to fill these positions with locals.

Even on the academic side, there are plenty of opportunities. We need more engineers. We need to push science and math more in education, because that's where the jobs are. Liberal arts are primarily a luxury of the wealthy, and you only need a certain amount of English majors.