Official Thread: Slavery in east Europe/Justice, Compensation, Education

1) separation between the Eastern and Western churches took a place only in 1054 (the Great Schism) . in that time Rusyns did not trade(in big numbers) slaves anymore. i guess Oleg of Novgorod was the biggest Rusyn slave trader

2) you are wrong "Ruthenian and Ruthene were originally Latinised exonyms, based on the endonymic term Rusyn an ethnonym applied to peoples speaking the eastern Slavic languages in the broad cultural and ethnic region of Rus' (Рус&#1100, espcially the medieval kingdom of Kievan Rus' and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.[2] With borders that varied greatly over time, they inhabited the area that is now Belarus, Ukraine, and parts of eastern Slovakia, southern Poland, and western Russia, especially the area around Bryansk, Smolensk, Velizh and Vyazma" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruthenians

3) Danes have not had easy access to Rus´, this map should help you


AND new question: what (and when) Danish merchants did have bases in the Volga region?

 

In the Middle Ages, the Volga trade route connected Northern Europe and Northwestern Russia with the Caspian Sea, via the Volga River. The Rus used this route to trade with Muslim countries on the southern shores of the Caspian Sea, sometimes penetrating as far as Baghdad. The route functioned concurrently with the Dnieper trade route, better known as the trade route from the Varangians to the Greeks, and lost its importance in the 11th century.

 

what Scandinavian Press and Scandinavia has to do with Rus history, do you think that SU has great interest in history of the eastern Europe ? + its year 2001

 

You obviously didn't read the link or the information by the 10th century traveler who accompanied them. That's your way of dealing with the truth, isn't it?

 

There was the Volga trade route , the trade route from “Varyagians to Arabs” which passed through Volga region. May be Varyagians had a base there but they gave wrong wording - “Danish merchants”. In my view "Varyagians merchants/ raiders" is more correct one because not only Danes used to go to this region.


Map showing the major Varangian trade routes, the Volga trade route (in red) and the Trade Route from the Varangians to the Greeks (in purple). Other trade routes of the 8th-11th centuries shown in orange.

 

again , Historians dont usually call the vikings for Danish merchants, and defiantly not for Varangians. Varangians came (official version) from Swedish heartlands


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Dans did go in this region, they have had other businesses

 

If you'd read the link .. they were NOT called Danish merchants.

 

Theoretically Danes might visit this region too. Who now can enumerate with some degree of certainty all places which they had / hadn't visited?

 

mu question was particularly about "Danish merchants slave trade". Rus, Genoa/Golden Horde slave-trades are the interesting questions as well , but they are not the first one

 

dont you think that it could another epoch? XIII or XIV century?

 

May be. But who knows now? If they had found the traces of those Danes there the examenation would have made it clear though.

http://vseokladah.ru/video/vip/69/raskopki_vikingov

 

Scandinavian history, the Danes and Swedes were launching raids and settlements Eastwards across the Baltic.

The reason for these warlike activities was wealth in the form of amber and furs which were looted or taxed from the Finns, Wends, Slavs, and others living in the eastern Baltic region.

Russia itself was not subject to the swords of the Scandinavians except for scattered raids until ca. 850 AD The first evidence of this movement eastwards into Russia is provided by the biography of Bishop Anskar of Hamburg written by his successor, Rimbert, who tells of how the Swedish king Olaf of Uppsala sent an army to to punish rebellious Kurlanders and opportunistic Danes at Apulia in Lithuania.

Shortly thereafter, as recorded in the Russian Primary Chronicle, a Scandinavian tribe called Rus appears, and by 859 had begun taxing the Slavs and Finns.



http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/varangians.shtml

The motive was silver.

 

http://www.nordicway.com/search/Vikings in the East.htm

Eyewitness accounts re: the Vikings.

excerpt:

We would in fact know little about these Rus, these Norsemen in the East, were it not for Muslim chroniclers. Ibn Fadman, whose 10th-century Risala (Letter) is the richest account of all, kept a journal that details his encounters with the Rus along the Volga, as well as with many other peoples.

 

http://nat.is/travelguideeng/icelandic_vikings.htm

 

I believe that now no one can say that only ppl from Sweden visited the hinterland of Russia / Volga region etc and ppl from Denmark never been there. Anyway it is really strange that they mentioned that “Danish merchants had bases in the Volga region and dealt in Slavs with Arab merchants " but did not give the century/more accurate whereabouts, the Volga region is a f-ing big place. Too vague information.

 

There is nothing ancient several centuries AD , if Kiev is ancient how we should call Memphis or Uhr ?
Kievan Rus is a historical term not the name of the entity of course but it is appropriate to use it since we are talking history.

Where the hell did you read that slaves were Rusyns ? Rusyns inhabited north Carpathia not the Russian plains.
No i am not wrong because Rusyns still exist today and they are nor Russians neither Ukrainians
The southern part of Ukraine was mostly steppes sparsely inhabited if inhabited at all , not the ideal place to capture slaves.
I don't understand what you are trying to prove there , slaves of any and all nationalities were a commodity back then.
Ruthenians are Ukrainians or at least part of them ( including Tatars , decedents of Cossacks etc)
Denmark is right of the top of Germany with access both in the Baltic and the Netherlands , buying furs and grain in cheap from Kiev and sell it in Antwerp , Brugges or Lubeck made them money .
Trading posts are not "bases" you only need a couple of people and a place to keep the stock , i don't see why the trade could only be between Kiev and Constantinople and not between Kiev and Kobenhavn .

 

What do Memphis and Uhr have to do with the term Ancient Rus? You confuse “warm” with “soft” . The prevalent term “Ancient Rus” >

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt...1&b=11&xa=LbB2.cCnaYiTOp5FAPeN4Q--,1380795352
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt...nt+rus&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-318
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt...1&b=21&xa=9vHCURUNbz.R0tTeCq0PQQ--,1380795352
is the common, collective name of East Slav princedoms (9-13 centuries) under the reign of the Rurik dynasty.

And the term “Kievan Rus” came into the world only in the 1930s. And now the term “Kievan Rus” is not very popular in the scientific groups – the “Ancient Rus” is more correct one.

 

We are arguing what the term "ancient" means, not wise so i will leave you to that with the note that we do not call Byzantine times "ancient" .

 

1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_ancient_Rus
and

2) here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruthenians



3) my question is about “Danish merchants" who " had bases in the Volga region and dealt in Slavs with Arab merchants " .

when Danish merchants had bases in the Volga region?

 

at that time much like today, the whole idea of a successful business has based on Monopolization of certain sectors of economy . so Danes had Britain , Swedes "worked" in our lands. Danish Atlantic slave trade is well-known fact , in the east Europe they were active only in Estonia as far as i know .

 

I have no idea about the Danish merchants

Wiki page on Ruthenians obviously points to Ukrainians which is what i am saying
When i speak about Rusyns i mean THOSE PEOPLE

 

Ruthenians obviously points to Belorusians, Ukrainians, and north -western Russia. you are very bad reader ....and what andy warhol has to do with our subject?

 

Belarus? Ruthenia was a strip of land from Lvov to Maramures .
I pointed that we mean different people when we speak about Rusyns yet you understood Andy Warhol and i am a bad speaker...

 

i thought if i´d introduce academical term Ruthenians/Rusyns/Rusins (instead of using Russians everywhere ) it ´d make our debate easier ....i was wrong

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruthenians

 

There is a Russian proverb about an elder-berry which grows in kitchen garden and an uncle who lives in Kiev (to read - one person is talking about one thing and other person is not listening to him and talking about completely different thing). Why I recall it?