Origin of Islam from Arianism

Sorry, it says Ur, because thats where they went from and that was the name they knew then.

Quantrill

 

I am not disputing that. Ur of the Chaldeans is referring to Ur under the Chaldeans or Neo-Babylonian Empire. This means that particular verse can't be much older than the 6th century BC, since that is when the Babylonian Empire came to power in that region. This means that the particular passage we are speaking of was written centuries after Abraham.

 

Yes............. thanks.

 

Well, what are you disputing then?

I am saying there was Ur, in Abrahams day.

Quantrill

 

Your welcome.

Quantrill

 

Look at 1 Chronicles 29:7

King David collects ten thousand drams (or darics) for the construction of the temple in Jerusalem.. but darics were coins named after King Darius I who lived five hundred years after David.

 

What does this have to do with Ur?

Quantrill

 

I think what Margot is trying to do is to get you to think about scripture more.

 

No, what Margot is trying to do is to cast doubt on the credibility of Scripture because He/she does not see it as the Word of God.

Quantrill

 

It intrigues me that David would collect these coins that didn't exist until five hundred years into the future.

I think it goes to the heart of when the story was written.. and shatters any notion of an eye witness account.

 

Must mean you are mistaken then.

Quantrill

 

Oh I didn't write the Chronicles....

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)

And gave for the service of the house of God of gold five thousand talents and ten thousand darics, and of silver ten thousand talents, and of bronze eighteen thousand talents, and one hundred thousand talents of iron.

American King James Version

And gave for the service of the house of God of gold five thousand talents and ten thousand drams, and of silver ten thousand talents, and of brass eighteen thousand talents, and one hundred thousand talents of iron.

 

I know you didn't.

Quantrill

 

My take is that whoever wrote the verse was saying it was equivalent to such and such amount of currency used in his time.

 

You must quote the original 1611 KJV. The rest where written by apostate heretics, lol.

 

That would make sense, wouldn't it..

Chronicles covers a HUGE swath of history...

 

Here is another questionable, error that I hope Muslims will have an answer.

Khadija was not a believer of Arab idolatry her cousin Waraqa was a devoted nestorian Christian monk, not just an ordinary Christian but a monk. When Mohammed run to her terrified reporting about the spirit that appear to him and hurt him, Mohammed was very sure it was a jin or genie. Khadija was able to calm him down and convince him that it was not a jin but it a the angel Gabriel. How would Khadija know or be very sure that it was the angel Gabriel if she was not a Christian or a well inform Christian? What role did their cousin the nestorian Christian monk Waraqa role was in influencing Mohammed to pursue a prophetic career?

Muslim scholars have denied Khadija was a Christian but they have no explanation how did she know the spirit was not a jin and that it was angel Gabriel when it is only Christians and Jews who believe in the angel Gabriel.

Catholic scholars such as Fr. Mitch Pacwa agree that Khadija was a Christian base on those facts.

 

Do you have a source?

 

My take is that the Bible is right and your wrong.

Quantrill

 

look, those are not facts.
you really need to read those:

what is a fact -->
what is a theory -->
what is a case -->
what is a claim -->

we deny it because she wasn't a christian.
you should show sources to indicate your claims.

i wouldn't count on "byzantine" theologians' theories...

 

Wasn't Waraqa actually ebionite?

 

Muslim deny it because they just can't accept that Mohammed's greatest wife was a Christian.

Muslim scholars agrees that she was a monoreligious she does not support the Arab several gods doctrine and that her cousin happens to be a devoted Nestorian Christain monk, a monk not just an ordinary Christian and he remain a devoted monk until he died he did not convert to Islam. Nestorian Christians are an heretic sect that does not believe in the deity of Jesus and the Trinity. There are too many give away and coincidence that is hard to ignore.
1. That region has a wide spread of heretic Christian sects.
2. At that same time also the controversy of the Trinity and Mary was being aggressively fought by those heretics.
3. That is why in Sura 5:116 Allah will say: "O Isa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Marry), Did you ever say to the people, "worship me and my mother as gods beside Allah?" He will answer: "Glory to You! How could I say what I had no right to say? If I had ever said so, you would have certainly known it. You know what is in my heart, but I know not what is in Yours; for You have full knowledge of all the unseen

That verse mention about worshipping Mary, first of all Christians don't worship Mary we pray to Mary not worship. Somehow the revelation got it wrong it is saying worship when clearly Mary is not being worship, the worship is the claim of the heretics.

4. Sura 5:73 Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is a third in a trinity. There is no god except the one god. Unless they refrain from saying this, those who disbelieve among them will incur a painful retribution.

Another doctrine of the Christian heretics found in the Quran. The verse got it all wrong insinuating that Christians actually worship three gods, when it was very clear One God in three Nature.

It was Khadija's faith that the spirit that appear to Mohammed was the angel Gabriel, how come she was very sure and how would she know about Gabriel unless she is either a Christian or a Jew, especially when it was Mohammed himself who was telling her that it was a jin, her trust to Mohammed was very strong because of Mohammed's integrity in managing their business that is why she took him as her husband, so why doubt him now?

 

One big difference between the Bible and Quran is that the Bible attributes its reference to thousand years of continuous writers this would mean that the keepers of the Bible were very good librarians or guardians because somehow succeeding generations of writers were able to continue to write using the same preserve writings to continue the story. While the Quran has no independent reference of its own, Muslim have use the Bible and Torah as their reference in fact their Quran even mention it to Mohammed "when in doubt ask the people of the book."

That is why the Quran is not in chronological order because the writers or authors don't have the entire story they just made up stories as they go along.
Muslims have failed to clearly see that because they have been indoctrinated never to question the Quran.

 

well. this time read.
sort out the difference.

i can give you links.

--------------

about your borrowed claim:

Muslim deny it because they just can't accept that
Mohammed's greatest wife was a Christian.​

start here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanif
link it to abraham (pbuh) to ishmael (pbuh).

--------------

qur'an corrects the bible and the altered history in it.
i gave you links to maurice bucaille and "haman" in another
thread. but since you are too busy copy-pasting old theories
you did not read them.

read.
read.
read.

more.

ebonite?
personally, i don't know...
from what i've read, he might have been.

you are more into this historical stuff than i am.
but ebonites were strict monotheists.

i haven't read the whole thing but here is an article, it might help:
http://islamic-replies.ucoz.com/2/What_About_Waraqa.html

a short passage:

 

The Bible not being in chronological order can sometimes make studying the Bible difficult. That is why chronological Bibles can come in so handy. A chronological Bible actually puts the content of the Bible in chronological order. As an example, Isaiah ministered during the times of the kings. So, a chronological Bible puts Isaiah’s prophecies in the appropriate place in the books of 1 and 2 Kings. A chronological Bible also takes the four Gospels and attempts to put all of the events in order.

Here is a link to where chronological Bibles can be purchased through Christianbook.com - Chronological Bibles.

http://www.gotquestions.org/chronological-Bible.html