Part 11 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Jan 23, 2014.

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  1. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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  2. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Oh please, stop making claims that you have spoken to so many Christians. It is sad to see you inventing stories to support your silly claim.
     
  3. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    OMG!

    Do you even KNOW what Chaos Theory is?

    Because I am fairly certain you don't so take a a minute and Google it.

    AboveAlpha
     
  4. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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  5. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    ah, I see that one hit home then. don't worry, it'll sting a bit at first (so they tell me, I never had to de-convert), but you'll soon find the light and the fresh air and life of intellectual honesty are their own reward :)

    - - - Updated - - -

     
  6. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Acceptance of evolution by religious groups
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Although biological evolution has been vocally opposed by some religious groups, above all in the United States, many other groups accept the scientific position, sometimes with additions to allow for theological considerations. The positions of such groups are described by terms including "theistic evolution", "theistic evolutionism" or "evolutionary creation". Theistic evolutionists believe that there is a God, that God is the creator of the material universe and (by consequence) all life within, and that biological evolution is a natural process within that creation. Evolution, according to this view, is simply a tool that God employed to develop human life. According to the American Scientific Affiliation, a Christian organization of scientists:
    A theory of theistic evolution (TE) — also called evolutionary creation — proposes that God's method of creation was to cleverly design a universe in which everything would naturally evolve. Usually the "evolution" in "theistic evolution" means Total Evolution — astronomical evolution (to form galaxies, solar systems,...) and geological evolution (to form the earth's geology) plus chemical evolution (to form the first life) and biological evolution (for the development of life) — but it can refer only to biological evolution.[1]

    According to Eugenie Scott, Director of the US National Center for Science Education, "In one form or another, Theistic Evolutionism is the view of creation taught at the majority of mainline Protestant seminaries, and it is the official position of the Catholic church".[2]
    Theistic evolution is not a scientific theory, but a particular view about how the science of evolution relates to religious belief and interpretation. Theistic evolution supporters can be seen as one of the groups who reject the conflict thesis regarding the relationship between religion and science – that is, they hold that religious teachings about creation and scientific theories of evolution need not contradict. Proponents of this view are sometimes described as Christian Darwinists.

    Acceptance[edit]

    This view is generally accepted by major Christian churches, including the Catholic Church, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Episcopal Church USA, and some other mainline Protestant denominations;[2] virtually all Jewish denominations; and other religious groups that lack a literalist stance concerning some holy scriptures. Various biblical literalists have accepted or noted openness to this stance, including theologian B.B. Warfield and evangelist Billy Graham. A 2007 poll showed that acceptance among American Buddhists, Hindus and Jews was higher than among any Christian groups (graph below).
    With this approach toward evolution, scriptural creation stories are typically interpreted as being allegorical in nature. Both Jews and Christians have considered the idea of the creation history as an allegory (instead of a historical description) long before the development of Darwin's theory. An example in Christianity would be the earlier writings by St. Augustine (4th century), though he later rejected allegory in favor of literal interpretation. By this Augustine meant that in Genesis 1 the terms "light", "day", and "morning" hold a spiritual, rather than physical, meaning, and that this spiritual morning is just as literal as physical morning. Augustine recognizes that the creation of a spiritual morning is as much a historical event as the creation of physical light.[5] [In later work, Augustine said that "there are some who think that only the world was made by God and that everything else is made by the world according to his ordination and command, but that God Himself makes nothing".[6]] Three noted Jewish examples are that of the writings of Philo of Alexandria (1st century),[7] Maimonides (12th century) and Gersonides (13th century).[8][9]
    Theistic evolutionists argue that it is inappropriate to use Genesis as a scientific text, since it was written in a pre-scientific age and originally intended for religious instruction; as such, seemingly chronological aspects of the creation accounts should be thought of in terms of a literary framework. Theistic evolutionists may believe that creation is not literally a week long process but a process beginning in the time of Genesis and continuing through all of time, including today. This view affirms that God created the world and was the primary causation of our being, while scientific changes such as evolution are part of "creatio continua" or continuing creation which is still occurring in the never ending process of creation. This is one possible way of interpreting biblical scriptures, such as Genesis, that seem otherwise to be in opposition to scientific theories, such as evolution

    LINK...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceptance_of_evolution_by_religious_groups

    AboveAlpha

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    Christianity[edit]
    See also: Allegorical interpretations of Genesis and Framework interpretation (Genesis)
    Evolution contradicts a literalistic interpretation of Genesis; however, according to Catholicism and most contemporary Protestant denominations, biblical literalism in the creation account is not mandatory. Christians have considered allegorical interpretations of Genesis since long before the development of Darwin's theory of evolution, or Hutton's principle of uniformitarianism. A notable example is St. Augustine (4th century), who, on theological grounds, argued that everything in the universe was created by God in the same instant, and not in six days as a plain reading of Genesis would require.[5] Modern theologians such as Meredith G. Kline and Henri Blocher have advocated what has become known as the literary framework interpretation of the days of Genesis.
    Contemporary Christian denominations[edit]
    All of the traditional mainline Protestant denominations support or accept theistic evolution. For example, on 12 February 2006, the 197th anniversary of Charles Darwin's birth was commemorated by "Evolution Sunday" where the message that followers of Christ do not have to choose between biblical stories of creation and evolution was taught in classes and sermons at many Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Unitarian, Congregationalist, United Church of Christ, Baptist and community churches.[16]
    Additionally, the National Council of Churches USA has issued a teaching resource to "assist people of faith who experience no conflict between science and their faith and who embrace science as one way of appreciating the beauty and complexity of God's creation." This resource cites the Episcopal Church, according to whom the stories of creation in Genesis "should not be understood as historical and scientific accounts of origins but as proclamations of basic theological truths about creation."[17]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceptance_of_evolution_by_religious_groups

    AboveAlpha
     
  7. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Here is something interesting I just found from a Catholic Specific Website.

    Alien Life Out There
    Vatican astronomer’s take on extraterrestials.
    by Edward Pentin | Source: NCRegister.com
    VATICAN CITY (NCRegister.com) — Extraterrestrials: Do they exist?
    The head of the Vatican Observatory thinks there’s a good chance they do, and that their existence would be in keeping with the faith.
    In a May 14 interview with the Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano May 14, headlined “The Extraterrestrial Is My Brother,” astronomer Jesuit Father José Gabriel Funes said that according to his “scientific judgment,” the existence of extraterrestrials is a “possibility.”
    “Astronomers contend that the universe is made up of a hundred billion galaxies, each of which is composed of hundreds of billions of stars,” he said. “Many of these, or almost all of them, could have planets. [So] how can you exclude that life has developed somewhere else?”
    The Vatican Observatory is one of the oldest astronomical research institutions in the world, and has its headquarters at the papal summer residence in Castel Gandolfo just outside Rome.
    Its main research telescopes, however, are located at the University of Arizona in Tucson.
    Father Funes, who took over as head of the observatory in 2006, denied that the existence of other intelligent life-forms would contradict Christian belief.
    “As there exist many creatures on earth, so there could be other beings, also intelligent, created by God,” he said. “This doesn’t contradict our faith because we cannot put limits on the creative freedom of God. To say it as St. Francis [of Assisi], if we consider some earthly creatures as ‘brother’ and ‘sister,’ why couldn’t we also talk of an ‘extraterrestrial brother’? He would also belong to creation.”
    The Argentine Jesuit explained that scientists studying the question of extraterrestrial life have made much progress in recent years, and will soon be able to identify if other planets have the conditions necessary for life. He added that, in theory, forms of life could also exist in parts of the universe without oxygen and hydrogen.

    LINK....http://www.catholic.net/index.php?option=dedestaca&id=410

    AboveAlpha
     
  8. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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  9. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Who did God reveal Himself to among the Canaanites...you ask? What...do you want an individual's name or something?...lol Regardless if you say the Canaanites never heard of the tribe of Hebrews, they certainly heard of God.

    Even before the Bible was made known to man, God has always revealed Himself to mankind.

    We read in Scripture, "They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them."---Romans 1:19 NLT

    One example of this is the human conscience, which includes a universal sense of right and wrong among all people. Not every person agrees on what is right and wrong, but every person is designed with a sense of morality. This sense of morality points toward a maker of morality—or God.

    Furthermore we read in Scripture, "For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God."---Romans 1:20 NLT

    Also let me point out that the Egyptians during the time of Moses spread the word about the powerful Israeli God to other nations after Moses lead the Israelies out of bondage in Egypt.

    Here is a passage in the book of Numbers 14:13-14 NLT: "But Moses objected, "What will the Egyptians think when they hear about it?" he asked the Lord. "They know full well the power you displayed in rescuing your people from Egypt. Now if you destroy them, the Egyptians will send a report to the inhabitants of this land, who have already heard that you live among your people. They know, Lord, that you have appeared to your people face to face and that your pillar of cloud hovers over them. They know that you go before them in the pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night."

    So in conclusion the Canaanites certainly were aware of the Almighty God that lived among the Israelies whose pillar of cloud hovered over them.
     
  10. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Again, you misinterpret what you read...what else is new...eh? I did not say whether I believe in them or not definitively.

    Obviously you are referring to WanRen and myself, yes we follow the same book which is the Holy Bible, yes we believe in the same God, the Triune God, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, and yes the Messiah, our Lord Savior Jesus Christ.
     
  11. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Hey...MITT....how come you did not reply to my question specific to the FACTS that all existing Gospels are copies of copies of copies....and none exist as an original?

    AboveAlpha
     
  12. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    What about all of those bones that came to life in the Old Testament? And what about those zombies that popped of of their graves and went to visit their buddies in Jerusalem? And don't forget the boy who was brought back to life in the Old Testament.
     
  13. Doc Dred

    Doc Dred Banned

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    were they not written in Aramaic during the lifetimes of the authors, Matthew , Luke Mark John?

    Did they not offer an oral tradition then had it written down.

    The message survived
     
  14. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Here is the problem...although I believe the basic message was preserved for a person to get all hung up on any particular word or wording is ridiculous and this is why.

    Every single original copy was destroyed by the Romans and then a new copy was created from Memory by another Christian...until the Romans killed that Christian and destroyed that copy and then again...FROM MEMORY....another version was written...and this went on and on for over a century.

    As well the Roman Biblical Canon specifically chose only 4 Apostles gospels and did not use the other Gospels.

    My point is the MESSAGE is all that is important but as far as the exact WORDS....they have been changed so many times for anyone to get so hung up on quoting Gospels word for word....is silly as such words are far different then they were originally spoken.

    AboveAlpha
     
  15. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Only you have been contradicting yourself and ignoring links. Everyone understand that humans are not apes and apes are not humans.

    Monkeys are apes = true
    So for you monkeys are not apes and humans are apes...uhm I got it I say false you say true.

    Yes humans are not apes. You say humans are apes you are confuse monkeys with humans.

    Bill Nye and his comrades believe and have been warning us about Global warming not I this mean another you don't know what you are talking about.

    Yes you have poor memory because you can't remember that humans are not apes and monkeys are apes.

    You can't differentiate THEORY from REALITY for you THEORY is FACTUAL. NOTE THIS DOWN WE ARE TAUGHT ABOUT EVOLUTION THE APE-HUMAN THEORY IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND THE REALITY THAT HUMANS ARE NOT AND HAVE NOT EVOLVED FROM APES BUT ARE A CREATURE OF ITS OWN KIND AND EVERY CHRISTIAN UNIVERSITIES TEACHES THAT WE ARE CREATED IN THE IMAGE OF GOD NOT IMAGE OF APE.
     
  16. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Critics of the Bible such as yourself will always assert there are errors in the Bible, that is just your way of comforting yourselves into a false sense of belief that it proves God doesn't exist.

    And so it is the critics who always bring up these assertions that the Bible is in error. We believers are the ones who have to explain to the critics they are misinterpreting the Bible and give them the proper interpretation, but of course they are usually met with denials.

    But nevertheless, there are no errors and so the Bible is inerrant, it is the infallible Word of God!
     
  17. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    LET'S ALL GIVE WANREN A BIG HAND FOLKS!!!!

    He has ONCE AGAIN....showed how he will continue to make FALSE CLAIMS and even though I and others have asked him to provide A SINGLE LINK TO A VIABLE SOURCE.....HE JUST KEEPS spewing out the BULL S#!%!!!

    AboveAlpha
     
  18. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Amen to that :pray:
     
  19. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    How did Abraham ride camels when camels weren't domesticated when he supposedly lived?
     
  20. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Is that all you can say? All you have done is contradict your own link all of your link have not said anything that Darwin's theory is factual or that there is factual and conclusive fact that you evolved from ape or every humans evolved from ape in fact my link has been very clear the ape theory was coined by racist white colonial European scientist in order to justify the slavery of blacks. Are you saying you support that I hope not?
     
  21. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    What bones? Maybe you could provide some Biblical link?
    Unless you are referring to this Gospel 2 Kings 4
    32 Elisha arrived at the woman’s house and went straight to his room, where he saw the boy’s body on his bed.
    33 He walked in, shut the door, and prayed to the Lord.
    34 Then he got on the bed and stretched out over the dead body, with his mouth on the boy’s mouth, his eyes on his eyes, and his hand on his hands. As he lay there, the boy’s body became warm.
    35 Elisha got up and walked back and forth in the room, then he went back and leaned over the boy’s body. The boy sneezed seven times and opened his eyes.

    36 Elisha called out to Gehazi, “Have the boy’s mother come here.” Gehazi did, and when she was at the door, Elisha said, “You can take your son.”


    Have you ever heard of CPR Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation?

    For the bone I guess you are referring this Gospel I will post 11-14 because this is what it mean
    Ezekiel 37:1- 14
    11 Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the people of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. 13 Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. 14 I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’”


    Here is a better understanding of this Gospel;
    http://www.studylight.org/com/bcc/view.cgi?book=eze&chapter=037
    As we understand this, it was an experience that came to Ezekiel in an inspired vision. It is not necessary to suppose that there was actually a whole valley of bleaching, unburied bones. It was the picture that came to Ezekiel in this vision. As we learn from the divine interpretation given a little later, "This prophecy does not refer to a literal resurrection of dead Israelites, but to a revival of the dead nation.

    There are no zombies in Christianity those zombies you are talking about are pagan beliefs that Christianity has proven to be myth supported by Christian science and medicine. Some are devil worshipers.
     
  22. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The interesting thing about the word "ape" is that it was first used around 1632. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ape

    Yet the Wycliffe Bible, 1382-1395, and the King James Bible, 1611, both use the word in several verses. So if people are constantly revising the Bible how can it be trusted?
     
  23. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Look....Darwin wrote a Book called The Origin of Species. His trip to the Galapagos Island's helped him understand that depending upon Environment, Existing Species both Predators and Prey and since the Galapagos were very isolated these Island's exhibited many species that were found no where else in the World and these species had adapted specific Physical Traits and Skills specific to live on those Islands.

    It helped Darwin understand that what determined the ORIGIN OF A SPECIES was ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONS, SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST, NATURAL SELECTION.

    This is an excerpt from his book.


    The most striking and important fact for us in regard to the inhabitants of islands, is their affinity to those of the nearest mainland, without being actually the same species. [In] the Galapagos Archipelago... almost every product of the land and water bears the unmistakable stamp of the American continent. There are twenty-six land birds, and twenty-five of these are ranked by Mr. Gould as distinct species, supposed to have been created here; yet the close affinity of most of these birds to American species in every character, in their habits, gestures, and tones of voice, was manifest.... The naturalist, looking at the inhabitants of these volcanic islands in the Pacific, distant several hundred miles from the continent, yet feels that he is standing on American land. Why should this be so? why should the species which are supposed to have been created in the Galapagos Archipelago, and nowhere else, bear so plain a stamp of affinity to those created in America? There is nothing in the conditions of life, in the geological nature of the islands, in their height or climate, or in the proportions in which the several classes are associated together, which resembles closely the conditions of the South American coast: in fact there is a considerable dissimilarity in all these respects. On the other hand, there is a considerable degree of resemblance in the volcanic nature of the soil, in climate, height, and size of the islands, between the Galapagos and Cape de Verde Archipelagos: but what an entire and absolute difference in their inhabitants! The inhabitants of the Cape de Verde Islands are related to those of Africa, like those of the Galapagos to America. I believe this grand fact can receive no sort of explanation on the ordinary view of independent creation; whereas on the view here maintained, it is obvious that the Galapagos Islands would be likely to receive colonists, whether by occasional means of transport or by formerly continuous land, from America; and the Cape de Verde Islands from Africa; and that such colonists would be liable to modification;—the principle of inheritance still betraying their original birthplace.

    This might seem like no big deal to the average person but believe me it is HUGE as far as understand Evolution.

    We now have the Genetic Technological ability to CONCLUSIVELY PROVE EVOLUTION TO BE A FACT.

    There is NO DOUBT about it anymore and even all major Christian Religious Sects agree Evolution to be a FACT and the American Academy of Science declared Evolution to be a fact all the way back in 1999.

    Now this refusal by you to admit Humans are IN FACT APES...and a member of the Great Apes even though I and others have provided an incredible amount of PROOF and supplying a large number of links to sites....simply shows me you are completely IRRATIONAL.

    You have stated this....."in fact my link has been very clear the ape theory was coined by racist white colonial European scientist in order to justify the slavery of blacks."

    First of all....REPOST THIS LINK.

    Secondly....let us all see....ALL MEMBERS....if anything within that link has anything to do with either agreeing or disagreeing with the reality Humans are APES.

    Here is YOUR CHANCE.....show us all how your link proves what you are saying.

    AboveAlpha
     
  24. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Try 2 Kings 13:31 (CEB) = "
    Now it happened once that while a man was being buried, the people at the funeral suddenly saw a raiding party. They threw the body into Elisha’s tomb and ran off. When the body touched Elisha’s
    bones
    , the man came to life and stood up on his feet!"

    Ezekiel 37:4-10 (NKJV) =
    [SUP]"4 [/SUP]Again He said to me, “Prophesy to these bones
    , and say to them, ‘O dry bones, hear the word of the Lord! [SUP]5 [/SUP]Thus says the Lord God to these bones: “Surely I will cause breath to enter into you, and you shall live. [SUP]6 [/SUP]I will put sinews on you and bring flesh upon you, cover you with skin and put breath in you; and you shall live. Then you shall know that I am the Lord.”’”
    [SUP]7 [/SUP]So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and suddenly a rattling; and the bones came together, bone to bone. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Indeed, as I looked, the sinews and the flesh came upon them, and the skin covered them over; but there was no breath in them.
    [SUP]9 [/SUP]Also He said to me, “Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.”’” [SUP]10 [/SUP]So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army."
     
  25. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    I hope that AA is paying attention to this definition;
    1ape noun \ˈāp\
    : a type of animal (such as a chimpanzee or gorilla) that is closely related to monkeys and humans and that is covered in hair and has no tail or a very short tail

    : a large and stupid or rude person


    A type of animal THAT IS CLOSELY IT DID NOT SAY APE IS HUMAN. It's a good thing I am not a large person :)

    The Bible revised as new linguistic discoveries are learn not the core essence. example ape is wrong interpretation that scholars learn to use the proper term.
     
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